23 replies to this topic

[The Legend]

For years the cadet guys have came on here claiming guys are spending 40k on cadet engines and they can't win because they are getting outspent lol and claiming an average cadet engine is 15-20k and I have called bull$hit the entire time .... Now the tracks said ok we're going to make you run a crate so your not buying iron , wet sump engines for 40k lol and all of the sudden everyone says they build their own for a couple grand in their shop lol lol lol and crates will cost more .... Well which is it ??? Do you build your own for 3k or do the back markers have 20k in their " hammer " lol lol lol you can't have it both ways .

[714d]

It absolutely IS happening both ways. I personally know guys who have put around $15k into their motor. If you start from scratch with all new parts and pay someone to do it, it adds up quick. But it is just as easy to buy a good motor used for less than $5k and freshen it yourself for a few hundred dollars. 99% of the time the guys spending big money think they are getting beat by motors and after buying more motor, usually run the same or worse than they did before. Of the guys I know putting huge money in motors, I have only seen a handful of wins.

[The Legend]

So you say the guys winning have low dollar motors ?? That's funny ... Because the people crying on here about gorillas costing 40k is what got the crate only deal rammed up your a$$es

[Dickracer99]

If a guy spent $40k on a sportsman's motor he needs to get his head check out!!!! I agree!! Still there are guys out there that spent crazy money on their motor, but also I think there are guys spending 3k-5k on a competitive motor as well. 

 

These cars got out of control because of  Motor, chassis - suspension rules and big tires. It is like anything goes.  The motors/Cages are set back a mile and they allow to many high dollar suspension parts. which priced the low budget guy out.     

[714d]

Where did this $40k number come from? You're the only one making up a number in this conversation.
What I'm saying is, the guys claiming to get beat by $20k motors are the guys who have $15k motors and still get beat. I've seen damn strong $5k motors win piles of races in that class. They aren't junk. The owners just aren't stupid.

[BRC27]

I read somewhere that Davenport is building his own motors for less than $10K.  Personally I believe the crate motor rule is garbage, and here's why.  Not only can I build a 400HP for less than the cost of 350HP crate, but the crates monopolize the sport.  Engine builders are losing money, small time race shops are losing money.  Everyone loses money except the big guys.  Guys that were spending 10K on their motors are now putting that money into better suspension and tires.  The tracks aren't losing money.  Maybe a couple cars which I guess you could translate to losing money, but tracks lose cars and gain cars every year that's business.  So who does the crates really hurt?  the little guy who still works out of the garage from the time they get home from work until dark.  The guy that has no sponsors and can't afford to have someone else work on their motor.

 

If you truly want to limit the amount being spent on a Motor bring back the claimer rules!  This doesn't guarantee that you wont have a guy spending more on a motor than someone else, but it'll at least make them think risk vs reward when building it.  "Do I put 10K in a motor that someone could claim for 8K?"  I don't think so.

[spike]

If affordable racing gets any cheaper, they may have to limit the number of participants.

[The Legend]

The only want davensnort is building motors for 10k is if the parts are free. Clements machine work might be 10k. They buy the parts from Clements and assemble themselves

[BRC27]

Ok, then what I read was incorrect.  I read that he built his own engines out of his own shop.  my mistake... I still think a claimer rule is a better idea over the crate.  JMO

[starboyshady]

There should be Claimer rules .... Even in crates ! 52-5500 claim rule

[NotToday]

Who has money laying around to claim with?

[BaconBits]

Claimer rules do not work. Guys just don't claim each others' shit. I mean, IMCA has had a claimer rule since it's inception. A few years ago, they had to start a B-mod class because people couldn't afford to keep up with the 30k "claimer" motors in A-mods.

[Rusty_Nuts]

Ive heard of stock guys spending up to 15k on motors but never once heard of anything higher than that. Thats a bit outrageous. I have heard of a cadet driver that bought 2 brand new cars from Chris for 40k, but that is 2 cars, not 1 engine. 

[TurnLeft22]

15k in a cadet is outrageous....

[ramsey31]

Ever notice its the driver's car that cant handle for sh!t that is always crying that they are "out motored"   its never that they are outdriven, burn the tires off, push like a dumptruck, etc.    Its always someone else.    That's why very few people actually get better, and many more spend years finishing in the same place.   1. acknowledges they can always improve with WHAT THEY HAVE. The other thinks they are already at the top of their game.

[3 link]

And guess what the "B" mod class runs......"602" crate on a 6200 chip..............just sayin.....

 

The mod claim went bye-bye when they changed to claim or exchange....now they all have 20 grand+ motors and the gentlemen's agreement

[6tixride]

Alright Jon, this is how it is from personal experience.(35 years of consecitive dirt and drag racing) We've built and bought every type of motors over the years. In my opinion the most your going to spend on an all steel 23 degree engine w/ a good after market block, jessels, dart cnc ported 230 heads, best crank, ect. is 15000. ( everything new and professionally built ) If you spend any more than that then you might me crazy or being over charged. We had an 383 engine built all new from top to bottom with an aftermarket block, callies crank, dart platinum heads, no expense spared and dyno'd for 9500 at broughers.(hated the motor- to much cam n tourqe). We've also bought a used 421 full roller, dart cnc 230 ported heads, motown block, jessels, best of everthing motor for 5000 off a winning steel block late model guy. That motor probably had an realistic 650+ hp, it was super fast but couldn't hook it up either.( only raced it a few times n lost oil pressure n currently gettn rebuilt w/ a milder cam). The best I've done in an stock car was with a smaller 358 engine! hell of alot easier to hook up! Theres nothing worse than trying too hook up a beast of a motor in the stock class. I've gone thru changing the setup a million times, de-tuning the motor with timing, 2 barrels, restrictor plates, ect. nothing worked! My dad and I battle it out at the shop all the time about this. He's from the old school drag racing days bigger is better. I think he's finally starting to come around n listen to me.(we'll see!) And by the way my dad does assemble n tune all of ours engines himself.

      As for this crate deal, i dont hate on the engine itself. I just hate for the guys like us that have 5 of everything on the shelf and loves build n tune themselves get that stripped from them by mandating crates only. As for the lernerville guys, most of them been racing there soo long that they got multiple engines or parts sitting there and they can build them up for alot less than 6000+ dollars its going to take to race a crate.

 

Craig Koteles 64k

[jo73]

Craig, that is what everyone is pissed about at lernerville. Guy's have been loyal to that place for YEARS. That place, for the racers, was like family. Guy's would and have helped each other to get someone back on the track come feature time over and over. AGAIN, and yes everyone knows it, I think this crate crap was shoved right up the sportsman guy's ass. The days of pulling a valve cover and seeing a broken spring are over. Changing a blown headgasket, ha, make me laugh. Spun a bearing, tuff shit, your on the trailer. Bla, Bla, Bla. McPherson does so well cause that combo works great up on the cushion and the motor isn't putting out enough torque or ponies to make it undriveable. I for one haven't seen him come off the bottom to the front like others have done.

[FanJim24]

Craig, that is what everyone is pissed about at lernerville. Guy's have been loyal to that place for YEARS. That place, for the racers, was like family. Guy's would and have helped each other to get someone back on the track come feature time over and over. AGAIN, and yes everyone knows it, I think this crate crap was shoved right up the sportsman guy's ass. The days of pulling a valve cover and seeing a broken spring are over. Changing a blown headgasket, ha, make me laugh. Spun a bearing, tuff shit, your on the trailer. Bla, Bla, Bla. McPherson does so well cause that combo works great up on the cushion and the motor isn't putting out enough torque or ponies to make it undriveable. I for one haven't seen him come off the bottom to the front like others have done.

And if everyone has to run the same line where's the racing?  Everyone will have to drive like Kelly.  Yeah, that'll make it really affordable when everyone loads up a pile of scrap metal every week,  Gary will love it though.  It's what he's trying for since he took over.  He wants to fill the stands with the idiots who want to see carnage and red flags and hurt drivers every week.

[blue by you]

And if everyone has to run the same line where's the racing?  Everyone will have to drive like Kelly.  Yeah, that'll make it really affordable when everyone loads up a pile of scrap metal every week,  Gary will love it though.  It's what he's trying for since he took over.  He wants to fill the stands with the idiots who want to see carnage and red flags and hurt drivers every week.

he'll love the money even more from that deal.