Jump to content





Photo

Lernerville Sportsman tire question


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 27 November 2016 - 09:51 AM

edit:  I'm just a fan in the stands on this if I don't learn the meaning of "benchmark", it doesn't matter and it's no big deal.  Learnerville posted rules, I read them and had a question that's all.  Yes I could call Lernerville and ask but with nothing better to do I'd rater waste time on here asking, then wasting their time on the phone.

 

 

What is the Hoosier "benchmark" for Hoosier LM 20, 30 40 tires?

 

I can't find info on it at the Lernerville site for either Sportsman or Late Model, the Hoosier site or on the web.

 

Tire rule from your site:  

 

"UMP TIRE RULE ONLY HOOSIER LM 20,30,40. Softening of tires are prohibited tire must not exceed the benchmark supplied by tire manufacture. Grooving and siping allowed."

 

Is it durometer reading for each tire?  

 

I'm just a fan on this with no money spent in the Sportsman or Late Model class, except for money to watch them at your track.  I'm asking because of interest in learning about the "benchmark". 

 

Not finding rules and definitions on the web I suspect is because of the tech issue with tires last year, rules are not yet finalized with Late Models.  But I don't know if it's the case.  I'm will not open a can of worms asking how you will tech Sportsman tires, I'm only asking to understand the meaning of "benchmark".

 


Edited by dirtstudent2, 27 November 2016 - 11:50 AM.



 

#2 jo73

jo73

    Insane Racer

  • Members
  • 1,525 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Interests:Life, Dirt racing, H-D, Golf, Corvettes, Street Rods.

Posted 27 November 2016 - 06:02 PM

Benchmark... we get to decide from week to week what we will determine to be the benchmark and to who we belive is in violation.

So, low budget racer A goes and buys a couple tires from someone that has the tire he wants. That tire he just bought sent him from finishing 3rd repeatedly to a win by a straight away. Word comes down, let's make sure we get a tire sample. BUSTED. Ok so I want to no what is going to happen to the team that tire was just purchased from ?

Benchmark... LMAO

#3 BaconBits

BaconBits

    Light heavyweight champion of my house

  • Members
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Mifflin
  • Interests:Medium pimping.

Posted 27 November 2016 - 06:13 PM

The benchmark is the sample of the tire straight from the manufacturer that the tire is tested against. It's also in violation of the rules to deface the tire in a way to "hide" the compound number imprinted on the
Follow me on Twitter: @JoshBayko

#4 BaconBits

BaconBits

    Light heavyweight champion of my house

  • Members
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Mifflin
  • Interests:Medium pimping.

Posted 27 November 2016 - 06:13 PM

Benchmark... we get to decide from week to week what we will determine to be the benchmark and to who we belive is in violation.

So, low budget racer A goes and buys a couple tires from someone that has the tire he wants. That tire he just bought sent him from finishing 3rd repeatedly to a win by a straight away. Word comes down, let's make sure we get a tire sample. BUSTED. Ok so I want to no what is going to happen to the team that tire was just purchased from ?

Benchmark... LMAO


You are a f*cking moron.
Follow me on Twitter: @JoshBayko

#5 jo73

jo73

    Insane Racer

  • Members
  • 1,525 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Interests:Life, Dirt racing, H-D, Golf, Corvettes, Street Rods.

Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:20 AM

well answer the question... what happens to the guy that buys a tire and it has work done to it ? or it has been soaked ? maybe that team with money to throw away wants to try a tire for the upcoming jackoff race, You can't tell me it can't or won't happen. If you believe that, then maybe your on the pole for that upcoming race. The more rules you make the more complicated it gets in trying to police those rules. It all goes by what the opinion of the persons interpretation of that rule is. I am going to ask it again. Why is there not a Basic rules package to have guys want to get into entry level racing ?  I'll ask another question. If you keep making things more complicated do you think guys are just going to keep opening up there wallets ?  DO you remember the #75 street stock of Bouchet. Everyone bitched week in and week out about how illegal that car was. BULLSHIT, they scaled that car every week. It handled better than any car out there. But yet rule changes and cost finally drove them out of racing. If you think it hasn't done that to others then your in a cloud. Go ride in your toter home to show people how much money you spend to look good.  



#6 BaconBits

BaconBits

    Light heavyweight champion of my house

  • Members
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Mifflin
  • Interests:Medium pimping.

Posted 28 November 2016 - 09:07 AM

well answer the question... what happens to the guy that buys a tire and it has work done to it ? or it has been soaked ? maybe that team with money to throw away wants to try a tire for the upcoming jackoff race, You can't tell me it can't or won't happen. If you believe that, then maybe your on the pole for that upcoming race. The more rules you make the more complicated it gets in trying to police those rules. It all goes by what the opinion of the persons interpretation of that rule is. I am going to ask it again. Why is there not a Basic rules package to have guys want to get into entry level racing ?  I'll ask another question. If you keep making things more complicated do you think guys are just going to keep opening up there wallets ?  DO you remember the #75 street stock of Bouchet. Everyone bitched week in and week out about how illegal that car was. BULLSHIT, they scaled that car every week. It handled better than any car out there. But yet rule changes and cost finally drove them out of racing. If you think it hasn't done that to others then your in a cloud. Go ride in your toter home to show people how much money you spend to look good.  


No, you idiot, you're a moron because you think the benchmark is arbitrary. It's not. And this discussion isn't about rules packages.
Follow me on Twitter: @JoshBayko

#7 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 28 November 2016 - 09:09 AM

deleted


Edited by dirtstudent2, 28 November 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#8 jo73

jo73

    Insane Racer

  • Members
  • 1,525 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Interests:Life, Dirt racing, H-D, Golf, Corvettes, Street Rods.

Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:02 PM

You make me laugh. It is about the rules. They are the ones that are using the word benchmark in there rules package. I would say in using those guidelines that so called benchmark could change at a moments notice. It could also change to benefit or be in violation of anyone they care to choose. Right or wrong ?

Instead you would rather call people names and throw slurs at them, instead of just having a conversation about it. You, and others feel this forum is something that should be made except able under your guidelines and guess what ? It's not.

So if I piss you off it makes me even more eager to answer you.

#9 BaconBits

BaconBits

    Light heavyweight champion of my house

  • Members
  • 4,098 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Mifflin
  • Interests:Medium pimping.

Posted 28 November 2016 - 05:01 PM

You make me laugh. It is about the rules. They are the ones that are using the word benchmark in there rules package. I would say in using those guidelines that so called benchmark could change at a moments notice. It could also change to benefit or be in violation of anyone they care to choose. Right or wrong ?

Instead you would rather call people names and throw slurs at them, instead of just having a conversation about it. You, and others feel this forum is something that should be made except able under your guidelines and guess what ? It's not.

So if I piss you off it makes me even more eager to answer you.


You're wrong on every level. You do not understand what benchmark means. At. All.
Follow me on Twitter: @JoshBayko

#10 old man d

old man d

    Fast Newbie

  • Members
  • 449 posts

Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:55 PM

OK, Benchmark means point of reference which mean a Hoosier Tire 20-30-40 is THEIR"s. Rule is tire must not exceed the Benchmark supplied by the manufacture. I would have to say IF you buy a tire from another racer it is up to you to see if it is legal or not if you are not sure DO NOT buy the tire. Any altered tire found is in violation of the rules. WOW, i said all that and never called anyone a moron. Get the point. Enough said.



#11 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:27 AM

The Lernerville rule referenced UMP tire rules which I did not see until BaconBits pointed out about not being allowed to remove markings on tires.  I just now while following up on what BaconBits wrote and there being a benchmark or reference made this come to mind.  If tires are able to be tested against a benchmark, why does it matter if the markings are on the tire?

 

Moving on I went to the UMP rules and below I've posted rules from Dirt UMP which would pertain to Lernerville, especially since Sportsman tire requirements are not the same as in Dirt UMP rules.

 

Below are copied UMP rules:

 
D. Any local track and/or DIRTcar official can confiscate any tire at any time and during any DIRTcar event to be evaluated and analyzed including verification using a tire durometer. Tires may also be submitted for further chemical analysis. 
 
E. Defacing or altering any of the manufacturer’s identification markings, letters, words, numbers, on any tire will not be permitted. The tire compounds may be covered by duct tape as long as the local track and/or DIRTcar officials are able to remove the covering at any time for inspection purposes. Any alteration of tires may result in immediate suspension from all DIRTcar racetracks and/or events and/or penalties deemed appropriate by local track and/or DIRTcar and/or World Racing Group Supervisory Officials. 
 
F. Tire softeners and/or chemicals designed to alter the chemical characteristics of the tire and/or the tire surface will not be permitted.
 

Per the rules Sportsman tires will either have a durometer reading taken or be sent for chemical analysis.  I doubt very much any local track would pay to have tire samples from their stock or Sportsman class sent in to be tested.  If that's not done it leave checking by durometer and looking to see if all the correct markings are on the tire.  It all takes me back to asking what is the "benchmark" and more accuratly asking what are factory "benchmark" durometer readings for LM 20, 30 and 40 tires?  

 

If reading cannot be given then Sportsman racers to avoid a DQ will have buy new tires to race or be darn certain used tires they buy or are given have not been altered.  Without at least durometer readings there is no way any Sportsman racer can be sure they will not be DQ'ed because of a durometer check by the track.   Are Hoosier LM 20, 30 and 40 durometer benchmark readings not given out by Hoosier?  I guess it's possible Hoosier does not have a benchmark for tire durometer readings because it would require them to make tires with more expensive quality controls and that is why I could not find any reference to a durometer reading on the web.  It may be rules making promoters have instituted a non existent benchmark for durometer reading, which is beyond the manufactures quality control requirements.  There is no reason Hoosier cannot change the composition of their tires from season to season and even during the season.  I don't see it as making a difference to the racer because tires will either get used up or age and get harder.  The only reason a durometer benchmark has any meaning is for testing per rules set in place by promoter rules makers.

 

I could not find any official information on the web about the durometer readings for Hoosier LM 20, 30 and 40 tires.  

 

If someone can post the readings, it will make all this mute and if there is no expensive chemical testing is going to be done by Lernerville all racers need to do is make sure their tires will meet an acceptable durometer reading.  If Lernerville is going to send samples out to be tested and DQ upon results, it also means the only way Sportsman racers will know they will not be DQ'ed is if they buy and use new tires.

 

 

edit:  I think the answer is pretty simple.  Either give the benchmark durometer readings for LM 20, 30 and 40 tires if you have them or it's open do what ever you want to the tires so long as you use the right tire from Hoosier.  While writing this I'm starting to think more and more, that maybe Hoosier does not give out specific durometer readings for it's tires.  And I don't know why they would need to because if tires are not treated they will either get used up or harden with age.  The only one's I now see with any interest in durometer readings are promoter rules makers and tire suppliers.   I'm starting to wonder if the protest about DQ because of tires results are because Hoosier does not have a benchmark because it and other race tire companies do not need to have one.   


Edited by dirtstudent2, 29 November 2016 - 08:36 AM.


#12 Jmfosnaught

Jmfosnaught

    Member

  • Members
  • 961 posts
  • Interests:Racing

Posted 29 November 2016 - 10:45 AM

Being intimately involved with Lernerville's Sportsman Stocks, the track's tech officials and having bought used tires from most of the Late Model teams at the track...I can tell you that a big deal is being made about nothing...with this post.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "The Man In The Arena", Theodore Roosevelt, April 23, 1910

#13 yenko1

yenko1

    Race Fan

  • Members
  • 694 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 November 2016 - 11:51 AM

lol


30

#14 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 29 November 2016 - 05:46 PM

Ok, I was just curious about the benchmark. No big deal if I don't learn what it is.

#15 tdietz10

tdietz10

    Fast Newbie

  • Members
  • 375 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:saxonburg
  • Interests:Racing

Posted 29 November 2016 - 07:51 PM

Being intimately involved with Lernerville's Sportsman Stocks, the track's tech officials and having bought used tires from most of the Late Model teams at the track...I can tell you that a big deal is being made about nothing...with this post.



That's because you don't want them checking those juiced tires your buying! You ever realize Jim it's the same ppl always bitching and as far as I know they have nothing to do with the track at all. That Jo73 doesn't even live in the state but he's on pa race stud everyday commenting on every post to put in his 2 cents yet probably didn't spend a dollar at the track this year.

#16 jo73

jo73

    Insane Racer

  • Members
  • 1,525 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Interests:Life, Dirt racing, H-D, Golf, Corvettes, Street Rods.

Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:06 AM

Made 5 shows this year. I have beeen going there since 1968, and you no what, it probably is me. Racing used to be simple. It's not anymore, and if you think for any reason that does not discourage people and competitors then you are flat out wrong. The rules being written today are not to help the racer. The rules being written today are for one thing only $$$ and to who that may benefit in the long run. That also in most cases does not benefit the one night a week racer. Every year there is a different rules complication that costs the racer more and more. They don't want to stick it to the top divisions at there facilities because every track out there is struggling to get cars. So why does the entry level class keep getting a rule change that guess what, cost them more money. The racing has changed in the sportsman class. The heat races when the track is heavy there is little to no passing. The feature is good racing usually, but again, that is if a guy gets a lot of good breaks to go his way. You lose the mojo because you missed your line or a car did something in front of you and what do you see ? passing. Fosnaught you guys were not happy at all when you got the motor deal rammed down your throat. I enjoyed watching you guys drive thru the field. Can you tell me you get that same feeling today with the crate motor under your right foot, that you no if you lift your going to lose car lenghts to that guy your trying to pass. So there you have it, another team that was out there, a good team that got out. Why ??? cost and rule changes. True or Not ??? 



#17 Foz20J

Foz20J

    Fast Newbie

  • Members
  • 458 posts

Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:27 AM

That's because you don't want them checking those juiced tires your buying! You ever realize Jim it's the same ppl always bitching and as far as I know they have nothing to do with the track at all. That Jo73 doesn't even live in the state but he's on pa race stud everyday commenting on every post to put in his 2 cents yet probably didn't spend a dollar at the track this year.


Jmfosnaught is my brother but I agree with him and I also agree with you. People need a place to voice their opinions so this is where they do it. Most of the time, if not all of it, the people who make these posts and the ones who comment don't even have all the facts or aren't involved behind the scenes. I buy all my tires used from late model guys and frankly I'm not worried one bit about the tech procedure with tires or anything else for that matter.
"a man with momentum and nothing to lose is a dangerous person" - Jason Fosnaught

#18 blue by you

blue by you

    Race Fan

  • Members
  • 686 posts

Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:51 AM

Ok, I was just curious about the benchmark. No big deal if I don't learn what it is.

you need to look that word (benchmark ) up in a dictionary it has nothing to do with tires or rules



#19 LM RACING

LM RACING

    Race Fan

  • Members
  • 764 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Mifflin

Posted 10 December 2016 - 06:04 PM

I was beating on a piece of steel that I had in my vise at the shop. Wouldn't you know it.........I missed one time and there we have it folks a BENCHMARK
Matt D

#20 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 10 December 2016 - 07:20 PM

I was beating on a piece of steel that I had in my vise at the shop. Wouldn't you know it.........I missed one time and there we have it folks a BENCHMARK



Well done Sir.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users