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#1 honeybadger1

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 06:48 AM

Over time so many classes have been formed and usually one is just a slight variation from the other.  With already too few racers out there, you now divide racers over so many classes and thus get smaller counts per class which usually equates to less entertaining racing.

 

If you were going to re-open (let's say Motordrome) what would your lineup look like to create a sustainable business model from the front and back gates?




 

#2 jo73

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 07:05 AM

Specials only with a sportsman's class on a weekly billing with whatever class is brought in as the headliner for that week. 3 classes max. get em in get em out.

Pay a decent purse and they will come.

Week 1. SLM with a healthy pay out, sportsman.

Week 2. Modified mania, along with ump style cars and sportsman

Week 3. Sprints, 410's and 305's and sportsman.

You build your sportsman class from local races that live in the area of the track.

See if you can get dates from the touring series and don't rape the fans by charging for everything from a campfire to a golfcart.

Be consistent with rules, talk to racers, and the most difficult part of the equation, try to have a consistent track surface.

#3 FanJim24

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:55 PM

I can think of 3 classes that can easily be dropped and immediately make racing better.

Edited by FanJim24, 14 August 2019 - 06:56 PM.

My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill. 


#4 old man d

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:31 PM

I have to know which 3 are you talking about?



#5 FanJim24

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 07:37 PM

Crate stocks, crate mods, crate sprints.

My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill. 


#6 old man d

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 09:45 PM

Thanks. I picked 2 of your 3, crate stocks and sprints.



#7 honeybadger1

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 07:03 AM

Crate stocks, crate mods, crate sprints.

 

crate mods get a ton of cars.. not sure I'd do that.. but the other two... yeah probably..



#8 Benny K

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 07:25 AM

The crate non wing sprints have been more successful than I thought they would. When they were announced I figured they will never get more than10. Of course they could go non wing 360 or 305 and achieve the same thing. Crate E Mods are not needed especially with Sharon, Raceway 7 having a successful 2 barrel non crate class. Stocks should not be mandated to run crates, should be an option.

#9 Hot Dog

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 08:16 AM

Crate stocks, crate mods, crate sprints.

How is eliminating two divisions that guys couldnt afford to race otherwise making racing better? Look, I dont love the leadership in the crate divisions but to act like they arent keeping guys in racing that otherwise would be out is insanity. Both the mods and sprints are averaging higher car counts than anyone could have ever expected and both have brought new blood into big car racing that never would have been involved as well as bringing guys that have either given up on racing or were on the verge of giving up on racing back. Is it my preferred form of racing? No, but to act like it isnt doing racing and tracks a service is just being stubborn and a little silly

Edited by Hot Dog, 15 August 2019 - 08:17 AM.


#10 old man d

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 09:54 AM

Hot Dog in all due respect yes the Mods are pulling good car counts. However, the sprints when racing at PPMS are only bring in 11 Sprints, that is not a good car count. Maybe you could help me out on this, what are the car counts at Sharon or Eriez when they race there and only 11 at PPMS that is not saying much in the way of support for your class you race in!



#11 Hot Dog

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:06 AM

Hot Dog in all due respect yes the Mods are pulling good car counts. However, the sprints when racing at PPMS are only bring in 11 Sprints, that is not a good car count. Maybe you could help me out on this, what are the car counts at Sharon or Eriez when they race there and only 11 at PPMS that is not saying much in the way of support for your class you race in!

They pull 16-20 everywhere else. I wouldnt use PPMS as a benchmark for any divisions car counts

Edited by Hot Dog, 15 August 2019 - 10:07 AM.


#12 old man d

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:54 AM

OK, all tracks are having problems, PPMS is not the only one, but saying you would not use PPMS as a benchmark for any class is a false statement. Fact PPMS has Rush Late Models pulling in 18 plus each week, that's not bad Hobby Stocks 13 plus, and they will get more. Lets tale Pro Stocks, PPMS went with Rush to get more cars that did not happen again no support. So again way don"t they support a race, why not bring 16 to 20 as you say, they are the ones putting on the show at that track.



#13 4FUN

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:55 AM

My 2 cents....

Sportsman/602 mods
358 limited late model(with 602 option). Only thing I would change in the rules here is that chassis needs to be at least 5 yeast old.
Pure stocks.... 355 or 602 option
4cyl...

Pay the mods Like the crate late models.... you will get full fields
Guys could move between 3 divisions if they decide on 602 power....

And 1 a month specials. (Supers/bb mods/penn Ohio, open e mods)

Edited by 4FUN, 15 August 2019 - 10:58 AM.


#14 Hot Dog

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:18 AM

OK, all tracks are having problems, PPMS is not the only one, but saying you would not use PPMS as a benchmark for any class is a false statement. Fact PPMS has Rush Late Models pulling in 18 plus each week, that's not bad Hobby Stocks 13 plus, and they will get more. Lets tale Pro Stocks, PPMS went with Rush to get more cars that did not happen again no support. So again way don"t they support a race, why not bring 16 to 20 as you say, they are the ones putting on the show at that track.

Because a lot of people arent fans of that track? Thats my only point on not using it as a bench mark, you cant use one track as an indicator of how a division is doing. Its so much different than anything else in the area that a lot of people choose not to race there when it comes up. They had 18 at Eriez on Sunday

#15 honeybadger1

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:18 AM

there's some decent ideas here... i think a huge problem is having to choose a crate motor or open motor route... if you can tailor rules to allow them to competitively run together, this would be great for our sport.  Guys that have the ability and ambition to build their own motors can do so, others that want to buy a crate a drop it in can do so.  The problem becomes when tracks / sanctioning bodies get greedy and they want to monopolize.



#16 Walt Wimer

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:23 AM

From a fan's point of view I would drop the Mini-stocks!!!   However, their car counts are padding the back gate, helping some tracks to keep going for the higher classes that are only getting 12-16 cars a night (or worse) in other classes.  Last week's Late Model car counts were terrible:  Lernerville 13, Bedford 11, Thunder Mountain 14, Hummingbird 9   And specials at Freedom and Old Bradford drew only 18 and 10!!!    The Late Models are in serious trouble!!    

 

NOT SO GOOD RACING!!!

 

Walt



#17 4FUN

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:27 AM

Honey....

The rules for the limited late and pure stock already exist (and work) in nesmith (durrence layne)

They allowed either option ( or at least did)
I think the 2 could co-exist with rules enforcement

Edited by 4FUN, 15 August 2019 - 01:03 PM.


#18 Hot Dog

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:28 AM

A quick scroll through their twitter shows
Eriez 8-11: 18
Sharon 7-20: 15 (rained out)
Bradford 6-30: 14 (bfe, still outdrew PPMS)
Lernerville 6-28: 20
Sharon 6-22: 20
Sharon 6-8: 18

So as I said, just because PPMS doesnt draw a good count doesnt mean the division isnt thriving in its 2nd year

#19 old man d

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 11:56 AM

You said what you had say and I said what I wanted to say! But, at the end of the day I"m just glad you have the passion for racing as I have just don"t lose that passion. And that is my only response on this!



#20 dirtstudent2

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 12:22 PM

Editorial:

 

 

 

The RUSH Big Modifieds is marketing verses racing.

 

358 could run with the Big Blocks with a weight break.

 

Marketing to help racing could have tried to sell the idea of a 604 being competitive with the 358, maybe without even an additional weight break.  That would have been good for Big Modified racing.

 

But instead knowing they could cut into both low budget Big Block racers and both low budget and top quality 358 racers, they went with the less money 602.

 

The lure of a season championship at less money has now destroyed as planned 358 Big Modifieds in the area.  And because of how it also destroyed any chance of having a number of 358 to run with the Big Blocks at a weight break it's killing Big Block car count in the area.  The future I see because of locking out any possibility of the 602 adding to Big Block racing numbers, will be the loss of Big Block racing in this area.  By choosing the less expensive 602 to gather customers and locking out any possibility of being in the same race with Big Blocks, their numbers will grow but Big Block numbers will decline.

 

The only saving of sprint racing in this area is their choosing to be wingless.  I don't think they realized the wingless craze for a few years was more of a fad for fans then a following.  The marketeers screwed up by not choosing the same 602 to go into a winged sprint.  If they had done that then they would have hit and hurt 305'/360's the same as they hit and hurt 358 Big Modifieds.  Their numbers would be three times what they are today but I'm not sure if they would have hurt 410's as they did Big Blocks.






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