59 replies to this topic

[skip]

I have nothing in this but looking out for the youths in this one class of cars. I would have to say that Hank was proably glad that he had a wing above his head a couple of years ago. ( hank would have to comment on that) This class has a lot a young ones who are trying to learn their way up in the sport. But you also have a lot who are older and dont have the money to move up to a non wing car. Dont try and bring the big car non wing class down to a class that is trying to get some thing going at Waynesfield. If your not able to move up to a big car non winged car, dont try and bring that concept down to a lower class that is trying to just survive at another track. If you want to go non wing go to 35. This class at waynesfield was not going to run this yr , and some talked Dean into it. I think you had better leave well enought alone and just enjoy it that you have a place to run here.. I to have been around for a while , Some wings stay on some come off. But if a impact is hard enought to take the wing off just think what it would of been like with out it. Every one has a opinion as to with or with out, and i guess it is up to the one sitting in the car.

[slide22]

Slide22:

In my 37 years of attending races in one form or another...watching multiple sanctioning bodies such as NAMARS, USAC, ASCoC, WoO, SOD, etc. as well as non sanctioned races, on dirt and pavement, with and without a wing, in 4 different states....You could say I have seen more than a few flips/crashes- barrel rolls, end over ends, multi car flips, grinding mulitple car pile ups, 'out of the ball park' flips and so on....and not to attack you, but I know full well that in a crash/flip, the wing will absorb some of the energy by collapsing, and thus slow the crash down/soften the crash some.

I also know that a wing helps plant the car on the ground...and it also can make a so-so driver look better while it acts like a rudder on top of the car. I also know that the wing creates a lot of drag on the engine.

However, you should know that there are times that the wing is torn off early in a crash/flip.......ripped off by the fence, by a passing car, the first impact with the ground, or the front mounts break and the wing flops backwards and isn't over top of the cage to soften any ensuing impacts.

What happens then???

Check out this clip from Knoxville...(I was there for the then 'Super Modified Nationals' in 1975) http://www.youtube.c...feature=related what happened to both of their top wings??...yep, ripped off, and the cars continued to flip. During those flips, the wing wasn't there to do anything!

So, like I said "It is not (and never has been), a guarantee that the top wing will stay on the car in a flip......so if the chassis' are not safe , they are not safe....wing or not. "

I respect your opinion, but have you ever driven one of these cars? Not trying to insult you, But I've driven these things for years, seen alot of nasty crashes in these cars, and had a few myself. when the wing is torn off during the flip, a majority of the time it is still slowing the car down quite a bit, because the wing catching on the ground, wall, whatever it maybe is creating alot of drag to slow the movement of the car.

That incident at Knoxville was scary, and truely a freak accident. You don't see stuff like that happening often, but sometimes the wing can be ripped off and not slow the car. But a majority of the time, it does slow the car. Either way its a risk, but personally I'd much rather have a big ole' wing on top of my car when i start to flip.

The main thing I'm apprehensive about running non-wing at Waynesfield(or any other big track,) is they tend to have some holes in the track. Not saying Waynesfield is usually rough, I've been there one time in the past 2 years, but non-wing cars tend to get upside down alot more when they start to bicycle. In a winged car when it starts to get on two wheels you can usually stay in the gas and the car will correct itself. Now without the wing when it gets on 2 wheels there is little a driver can do besides stay in the throttle, and hope you don't go over. And with alot of younger drivers in this class, when they catch a wall, another car, or start to bicycle they tend to want to jump out of the throttle, which changes the momentum of the car, and can often cause a nasty crash.

[wing44]

skip i ran the #44 mini (ron coleman) and now have my son vince coleman running the #29 mini this is his first year out and also do the set up on the #47 garry loney mini sprint.i was not looking to start a new class just mixing it up a little with wing and non/wing shows to bring the guys from 35 raceway to bring up the car count. minis run non wing all across the US and they run alot slower just like the full size non wing. we run faster lap times with our winged minis than the non wing full size sprints do.we whould have at least another 8 to 12 more cars to run at w-field. they all had said they would come up to w-field and run with us if we could get the schedule to work out and that is with the wing and or with out.if we work together both tracks whould get full car counts. i love to race at w-field the track is just 20 min from my house but if we dont keep the car count up we all have been told we won't be running at w-field. so if anyone has a better suggestion please fell free to help but dont bash the idea of running non/wing because of safety because the chassis are all made to run without wings too.call floyd bailey at bailey chassis company and ask for yourself at 1-615-822-7041 or foz ,shark,erc chassis thank you.if anyone can help build the car count with any ideas call me at 1(937)935-5289 ron coleman #44

[slide22]

skip i ran the #44 mini (ron coleman) and now have my son vince coleman running the #29 mini this is his first year out and also do the set up on the #47 garry loney mini sprint.i was not looking to start a new class just mixing it up a little with wing and non/wing shows to bring the guys from 35 raceway to bring up the car count. minis run non wing all across the US and they run alot slower just like the full size non wing. we run faster lap times with our winged minis than the non wing full size sprints do.we whould have at least another 8 to 12 more cars to run at w-field. they all had said they would come up to w-field and run with us if we could get the schedule to work out and that is with the wing and or with out.if we work together both tracks whould get full car counts. i love to race at w-field the track is just 20 min from my house but if we dont keep the car count up we all have been told we won't be running at w-field. so if anyone has a better suggestion please fell free to help but dont bash the idea of running non/wing because of safety because the chassis are all made to run without wings too.call floyd bailey at bailey chassis company and ask for yourself at 1-615-822-7041 or foz ,shark,erc chassis thank you.if anyone can help build the car count with any ideas call me at 1(937)935-5289 ron coleman #44

The class is on its way to building back how it was. The first year I raced at Waynesfield there were 35-40 cars a night,(2005, year 35 didn't run, beyond the point though,) and it was TOUGH to even make the feature. What really hurt the class was several cars felt the need to built these 10k engines. It drove several people away, or forced you to build an engine, and or get a modded ignition box. The stock motor rule will help to bring the class back, but it won't be right away. Still I'm glad to see they are doing something to control cost. I'm not sure if they have a tire rule, but I think it should be either open or allow a hard hoosier or American racer. right now we get our American Racer right rears for about $50 cheaper than a Hoosier.

[stif racing]

Ron we would love to run some races at Limaland, really liked the show there on friday and Waynesfield on Sat. A couple of us talked to them laast year to see if we could get more races there and they said just one and if they aren't at least 20 cars for that show they would not have it anymore. Last year 22 cars signed in at Limaland for that race we tried to talk to them again this year and they won't even answer back to us and they didn't give us that one race either this year.

[skip]

I love the big car non wing racing, I was only looking at the younger ones coming up and their safety. Like i said i have nothing in it. Its a great starter class for youth, and a place for a low budget person who just loves racing and cant afford a move up to some thing bigger.

[slide22]

I love the big car non wing racing, I was only looking at the younger ones coming up and their safety. Like i said i have nothing in it. Its a great starter class for youth, and a place for a low budget person who just loves racing and cant afford a move up to some thing bigger.

I'm glad someone has a similar opinion as me

[cornflake]

The class is on its way to building back how it was. The first year I raced at Waynesfield there were 35-40 cars a night,(2005, year 35 didn't run, beyond the point though,) and it was TOUGH to even make the feature. What really hurt the class was several cars felt the need to built these 10k engines. It drove several people away, or forced you to build an engine, and or get a modded ignition box. The stock motor rule will help to bring the class back, but it won't be right away. Still I'm glad to see they are doing something to control cost. I'm not sure if they have a tire rule, but I think it should be either open or allow a hard hoosier or American racer. right now we get our American Racer right rears for about $50 cheaper than a Hoosier.

10k motors come on like i said before the people that wre running in the back are still yhere . there is much more to these mini sprints than that. this class is no different than when blaney drops down to a 360 and wins you take someone that drops down from a 360 and put him in one of these and he is going to drive the weels off of it

[slide22]

10k motors come on like i said before the people that wre running in the back are still yhere . there is much more to these mini sprints than that. this class is no different than when blaney drops down to a 360 and wins you take someone that drops down from a 360 and put him in one of these and he is going to drive the weels off of it

Waynesfield in a 600cc car is flat foot, WFO all the way around. The track usually stayed tacky when I ran there, so it was basically general setup.

You know why when guys like Blaney or Danny Smith drop down to a 360 run great? Yes they're GREAT drivers, but they're also going to get the best engines and best equipment.
You could take Steve Kinser and let him drive one of these cars, but if he's racing against an engine with 25 more horsepower and a modified ignition box, he won't win 9 times out of 10. This would be a completely different story if the track was smaller or slickened off more often.

[Need for Speed]

I respect your opinion, but have you ever driven one of these cars? Not trying to insult you, But I've driven these things for years, seen alot of nasty crashes in these cars, and had a few myself. when the wing is torn off during the flip, a majority of the time it is still slowing the car down quite a bit, because the wing catching on the ground, wall, whatever it maybe is creating alot of drag to slow the movement of the car.

That incident at Knoxville was scary, and truely a freak accident. You don't see stuff like that happening often, but sometimes the wing can be ripped off and not slow the car. But a majority of the time, it does slow the car. Either way its a risk, but personally I'd much rather have a big ole' wing on top of my car when i start to flip.

The main thing I'm apprehensive about running non-wing at Waynesfield(or any other big track,) is they tend to have some holes in the track. Not saying Waynesfield is usually rough, I've been there one time in the past 2 years, but non-wing cars tend to get upside down alot more when they start to bicycle. In a winged car when it starts to get on two wheels you can usually stay in the gas and the car will correct itself. Now without the wing when it gets on 2 wheels there is little a driver can do besides stay in the throttle, and hope you don't go over. And with alot of younger drivers in this class, when they catch a wall, another car, or start to bicycle they tend to want to jump out of the throttle, which changes the momentum of the car, and can often cause a nasty crash.

Your first reply to me was an effort to 'school me'.....and the above post is no different.

My point is very valid, and ramrodd00 and wing44 understand my point.

The wing doesn't always stay on, sometimes not even after the first impact.....then what?...is the car suddenly unsafe. In this thread it seems a big part of the idea of a Mini-Sprint being 'safe' is based on if it has a wing on it or not.

Running without a wing calls for a different chassis set up. Miss the set up, and you've got your hands full...just like with ANY race car!

I don't see how a mini sprint without a wing is so hugely different to set up than a USAC Focus Series midget. Several 'kids' drive (or have driven) in the Focus Series. They don't flip all the time. They aren't always getting hurt. The Focus 'Midwest Series' alone has 5 races scheduled on dirt this year between Gas City, and Twin Cities Raceway park. Go to the USAC site, and click on 'Ford Focus'...and check out the slide show of pictures of the winners this year from across the country.... I didn't see any gray hair on any of them!

If you don't want to run without a wing, that's fine...or if somebody doesn't want their kid to run without a wing, that's fine too. But to act like a mini sprint running without a wing will do nothing but flip, and get all these 'youngsters' hurt....... is nuts.

Edited by Need for Speed, 25 June 2009 - 04:23 PM.

[123]

when i ran minis i ran with or with out a wing. to me a wing is apart of the race car not a safty item. i went out and bought what i thought was the best head and neck system for me, as well as a full Containment seat. if you dont have a good seat and a good head and neck system you have more to think about then just wing or no wing

[slide22]

Your first reply to me was an effort to 'school me'.....and the above post is no different.

My point is very valid, and ramrodd00 and wing44 understand my point.

The wing doesn't always stay on, sometimes not even after the first impact.....then what?...is the car suddenly unsafe. In this thread it seems a big part of the idea of a Mini-Sprint being 'safe' is based on if it has a wing on it or not.

Running without a wing calls for a different chassis set up. Miss the set up, and you've got your hands full...just like with ANY race car!

I don't see how a mini sprint without a wing is so hugely different to set up than a USAC Focus Series midget. Several 'kids' drive (or have driven) in the Focus Series. They don't flip all the time. They aren't always getting hurt. The Focus 'Midwest Series' alone has 5 races scheduled on dirt this year between Gas City, and Twin Cities Raceway park. Go to the USAC site, and click on 'Ford Focus'...and check out the slide show of pictures of the winners this year from across the country.... I didn't see any gray hair on any of them!

If you don't want to run without a wing, that's fine...or if somebody doesn't want their kid to run without a wing, that's fine too. But to act like a mini sprint running without a wing will do nothing but flip, and get all these 'youngsters' hurt....... is nuts.

You're point is valid, and I understand it, I just disagree. I've raced these cars for 7+ years and have seen never seen a wing come off during a flip. After the car has landed, I've seen a few fall off, but thats after the fact. It does happen quite a bit in full-size sprint cars, but they're also going much faster, and flipping much harder.

Like I said before, even IF the wing comes off, it is still slowing the car down while its flipping. Its not like right before a car is about to go over the wing magically flies off. There isn't as much cushion to slow the car during the flip with a non-wing car. Even though you may be going at slower speeds, a car that flips 8-9 times non wing will generally tear up more equipment than a winged car that goes over 1-2 times. And I'm not talking about saving wings, those are easily replaceable, but for alot of guys out there racing, they junk a frame or engine, they're done for a while. Yes you can have some nasty crashes with the wing, but the same crash without a wing will be worse alot of the time. Not EVERY time like you're acting like im saying

Comparing Focus Midgets and non-wing mini sprints is apples to oranges. Although similar, they are very very different. Non wing mini-sprint weight rule is 825 lbs, Focus midget is 1100 lbs. 275 lbs is quite a bit of difference for having the same/similar amount of power. Mini-sprint chassis must be built of 1 1/8 - .083 tubing(most chassis builders are building thicker, all should be), Focus midget 1/38 - .095 tubing. Focus midgets also use power steering, not as much wrestling a car around. You get one of these cars setup too tight, it is very easy to go over. Not saying it will happen all the time, but at a high speed track it can happen very easily.

[123]

theres to ways to look at this problem. the heavier car hits harder and once it gets going its harder to stop. the lighter car dont have the weight be hind them that the heavy car would.

[123]

a foz comes off the same jig as a spike midget. can anyone tell me were they run winged dirt midgets

[slide22]

a foz comes off the same jig as a spike midget. can anyone tell me were they run winged dirt midgets

ARDC used to until a couple years ago. Theres a group in No-Cal that runs them (i think?), and one in the northeast that runs on pavement. FOZ is a good car. It is one that are building the heavier cars that are alot tougher and can withstand harder crashes.

[wing44]

thank you all and lets all agree to disagree see you at the field.

[underbird fan]

ONLY IN MY OPINION, a few of you guys and or gals that want to run without a wings. Why don't you approach Dean about running a heat race after a regular show without the wings. (NO PAY NO POINTS) Then the drivers can form their own opinion after they give it a try at WMP. From a race fans point of view I would like to see it at least once at the field. And I hope no one ever takes a short cut with their safety equipment, thinking they can save a buck or two. I have always enjoyed the minis and it has been great to see the youth progress over the last few years. To all the mini sprint driver and all the rest of the drivers THANK YOU for what you do.

[skinnykenny]

^^^^^^That is by far the best post on all 3 pages of this topic^^^^^^ I would kinda like to see a topless race myself....BUT....I also have great concerns about the safety of our young drivers. Just please stop and think for a minute.....Racing in general is NOT a safe activity. Yes we want it to be and try hard to make racing as safe as possible. Great strides have been made in safety in the last 20 years but there is still some major risks to everyone involved from pit crew, track workers, drivers, and even the track photographer. Spectators are injured/killed every year while watching the sport they love because of some "fluke" accident. Nothing can ever make racing totally safe. If there were no risk involved, it would not be nearly as interesting. Some of our mini drivers are children. Children are not wired the same as adults and a 13 year old can't make a decision based on 20+ years of experience like an adult does. That is why they are still children!! A kid can't really grasp the concept of getting killed in a racecar or while playing football because they see racing and other sports on tv everyday and people aren't dying. But it can and does happen some times. Alot of you have seen me joke around about the time that Tim Viles let me run some laps in his car. Tim is a super nice guy and you only need to talk with him for a few minutes to understand that he is very intelligent too. He told me that his mini was a certain brand that was built heavier and stronger than many of the other cars being raced. He said that some of these other brands were too thin and light to be safe in his opinion. (Don't bother to ask me because I don't know brand xxx from brand yyy.) Point is, this came from a well informed, smart, adult that had done research before he bought a car and became a track champion. And because he thinks that, doesn't necessarly make it fact. His descision to race that car was just far beyond any choice a 13 year old can make. I am sure wings make them safer. How much safer is all opinion. I would have a tuff time putting my child in one of those cars.....especially without the big pillow on top!!

[racechasser]

I have watched this post for weeks now , and all I have to say being around this sport now for 35+ years is that wing or no wing (pillow?)! THIS SPORT is DANGEROUS for adults and children alike!!! It does not matter what your driving , IT IS WHAT IT IS !!! We all do what we can to make it safer , but it will always be racing for all of us young or old , rookie or vet. Racing is Racing ! Nobody will change that , This Danger is what attracts us all! Nuff said

[wing44]

check out this on you tube


wow this is an indoor 1/4 mile dirt track running non wing micro sprints with 600cc engines. they will run laps around us period.with 125lbs lighter so that is enough about your stupid safety crap about our cars running non wing. put the best safety equipment in and on your drivers and lets go racing.
This year's annual Tulsa Shootout attracted more than 900 entries in 24 different classes of Micro Sprint Cars, Karts and Quads on the indoor 1/4-mile clay oval.

Edited by wing44, 28 June 2009 - 09:30 PM.