The biggest thing in a heat race i saw last night (and the racing was great) but the biggest thing was when Nelson tried to re enter the track while they were going into turn 3 getting ready to take the green flag. I wanna know what the flagman was doing???? Nelson was parked there on the track b4 they made it to turn 3 and instead of turning on the caution lights and replacing the green flag in his hand with the yellow, b4 doing that he lets them jump on the gas and acts like he is hitting the flagstand with his fist? Im sorry but i think instead of acting like your hitting the stand maybe you should be throwing the yellow and making sure that Nelson is outta harms way b4 you let the cars go green. He didnt even throw the yellow until the cars were coming out of turn 2.
Jeremy i know you read these forums and I am not trying to make ya mad but I am dying to know the reasoning behind this?
Flagman????
Started by witness_24, Jun 12 2011 10:44 PM
16 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:44 PM
#2
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:50 AM
Witness,
I did the right thing. I did not waive any flag (yellow or green). That act has caused serious pileups. I let the cars accelerate and clear before turning on the yellow. I hit the flagstand because I was upset at the situation I was put it. You are right, someone seriously could have gotten hurt. There were 8 cars coming to take the green, already passed the yellow light in 3. So turning it on would have been useless. If I waive any flag, yellow or green the cars gas up. Trust me I never ever want to put any driver or fan in danger. My actions didn't cause the situation and I did what I thought was right to get everyone through it safely.
Jeremy
#3
Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:38 AM
Thank you for clearing it up for me and maybe your actions were right but i was standing in turn 4 and nelsons car was up there b4 the group made it halfway down the back stretch. You are the flagman though and with that theres a certain amount of trust everyone puts into you. No one was hurt or wrecked thank god. But the second Nelson came up on that banking in turn 4 that yellow should have came out and if you would have done it the second he did then those cars would have seen the yellow
#4
Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:20 AM
I did not see the exact second he was pushed onto the track. The yellow lights were off so we were ready to go green. No cars should have entered the track. I don't know if he was pushed passed the chute worker or if he was waived on. Either way he shouldn't have been there and I'm sorry I missed the opportunity to turn the light on. From my perspective he was still in the chute and was pushed out as the cars approached 3-4. Was too late for me to turn the light back on and call off start.
I do try to be very aware of my surrounding and what's on the track. I guess I wasn't expecting a late entry so my eyes were following the field coming to take the green.
Jeremy.
#5
Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:02 AM
I understand what your saying man and i had a whole different perspective prolly cuz i was standing right there when he was pushed out. And yea i believe they just pushed him right past the chute worker and then the chute worker tried to get him back b4 they went green. I understand its a whole different view from atop the flag stand and I aint holding it against ya just was wanting to know the reasoning. I mean lets be serious how many times does that situation occur?
#6
Posted 13 June 2011 - 01:37 PM
I can answer this one. I (Dan Kelly) was standing on the grid. Jon was sitting back near the middle lane of the pits just as the cars were coming to the one to go flag. I was motioning for his pusher to hurry up and move him up. It appeared that he had some sort of issue so I told Jeremy this over the radio and Jeremy said I already gave them the one to go by this time and the lights were off. So I stood in the middle of the pit lane to block it so to speak. Next thing I know the four wheeler had pushed him out towards the race surface past me and I was scrambling to push him back. It was a really confusing situation to say the least. I know Jon was having some engine issues earlier and I had allowed him to push off to start once or twice between races. As to what happened here I'm not sure, maybe I'll ask Jon next week as I never had a chance to talk to him about it. I totally understand where Jon was coming from trying to get back in the race. Jon is a great guy and I'm sure he wasn't aware of what was going on the track.
Our rule is once the lights are turned off and the one to go has been signaled or transmitted to the drivers over raceceiver the grid is closed. I felt bad for Jon but it was also a very scary situation for me and Jon at that point. Here I am at the entrance to the track and a car is being pushed past me with the rest of the field roaring by. Then I have to get on raceceiver as I'm pushing Jon back letting them know caution is out by the time they were on the backstretch. I'm glad it all worked out but I think I needed a pants change at that point...
Danny Kelly
#7
Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:23 PM
yea it was very strange situation. but with your story and how it unfolded i dont see why the caution lights were not flipped back on once the flag man knew? Especially since he had time to tell you he already threw the one lap signal, at the point he should have instantly flipped the caution lights on and thrown the yellow instead.
But like i said very strange situation, definitely not one that occurs every week or for that matter every season. And all that can be hoped for is that IF it ever happens again the yellow is waved b4 the field makes it to the green. I know no one was hurt this time but it could have been a lot worse
And Jeremy dont take this topic wrong and think that i dont like you as a flag man i was just wondering
#8
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:01 PM
yea it was very strange situation. but with your story and how it unfolded i dont see why the caution lights were not flipped back on once the flag man knew? Especially since he had time to tell you he already threw the one lap signal, at the point he should have instantly flipped the caution lights on and thrown the yellow instead.
But like i said very strange situation, definitely not one that occurs every week or for that matter every season. And all that can be hoped for is that IF it ever happens again the yellow is waved b4 the field makes it to the green. I know no one was hurt this time but it could have been a lot worse
And Jeremy dont take this topic wrong and think that i dont like you as a flag man i was just wondering
Most people are smart enough to notice the lights, some aren't. At lima a long time ago we got the 1 to go, and the yellow light came on and started FLASHING the whole way down the back stretch, and through 3-4. Half the field took off anyway, including the moron behind me who stuck his RF wheel in my drivers window. Raceceivers should help, though I have trouble hearing mine while on the gas. It was better this week though....
#9
Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:36 PM
I took your original post as that of a concerned fan. And I appreciate the concern. I hope next time you can approach me personally. But, I have no problems answering in a public forum. Dan never mentioned in his post I was informed of a car on the track. He said there was a car in the chute. I replied I already gave the one to go signal. I even remember the announcer saying, "The 9n didn't make the call. Hopefully he can get the car ready for the b-main." It was after that he was pushed onto the track. Hindsight is 20/20 and I can say coulda, shoulda, woulda, but I made the decision I did with all the factors I had at the time. (Remember I didn't see him on the track until after the cars had passed the light).
Jeremy
#10
Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:13 PM
Didn't see what happened here but from someone that has flagged I don't see the flagman being at fault here. When you give the field the one to go your attenetion is focused on that field of cars staying together and coming to turn 4 for a good start. Now speaking also from having worked on the grid before, a driver will do anything he can to get on the track for their race and if you know that a car is there you keep your eye on that car because 9 out of 10 times they'll get by you and now you got the situation you got Sat. night. Not sure it's mentioned in the drivers meeting but if it is when the one to go came across the radio that driver should have known then it was to late, if he had a radio. Be thankful nothing happened, the bad part is when your in that flag stand everything comes back on you and you can't be watching everything that is going on outside the track that's what those workers are there for.
#11
Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:32 PM
I took your original post as that of a concerned fan. And I appreciate the concern. I hope next time you can approach me personally. But, I have no problems answering in a public forum. Dan never mentioned in his post I was informed of a car on the track. He said there was a car in the chute. I replied I already gave the one to go signal. I even remember the announcer saying, "The 9n didn't make the call. Hopefully he can get the car ready for the b-main." It was after that he was pushed onto the track. Hindsight is 20/20 and I can say coulda, shoulda, woulda, but I made the decision I did with all the factors I had at the time. (Remember I didn't see him on the track until after the cars had passed the light).
Jeremy
Dan said in his post that it appeared he had some kind of issue and he told you this over the radio and thats when you said i already gave them the one to go. So obviously he did tell you and I am a concerned race fan and next time i am at WRP i will come up to you and introduce myself, that is if i get back over there this year. If you could hear the announcer say that the 9n didnt make the call then you should be able to hear your fellow worker who is speaking straight into your ear
#12
Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:41 AM
They should get a flourescent strap to stretch across the shoot and when the flagman gives the 1 to go put it across the opening. if you cross it, knock it down you are DQed for the evening. Jeremy is a good flagman. There are a lot of things going on on a racetrack, and it isn't easy. Anyway, what do you think of the idea with the strap?
#13
Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:47 PM
Dr. Speedy I like your idea, it's a productive one. Witness 24 if they said he didn't make the call then it doesn't become his responsiblity to watch for him to enter the track, give the guy a break it's not his fault, he gave the one to go, he told he workers that over the radio that he gave the one to go and aty that point he has his attention on that field of cars coming around to take the green.
#14
Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:50 PM
Dr. Speedy I like your idea, it's a productive one. Witness 24 if they said he didn't make the call then it doesn't become his responsiblity to watch for him to enter the track, give the guy a break it's not his fault, he gave the one to go, he told he workers that over the radio that he gave the one to go and aty that point he has his attention on that field of cars coming around to take the green.
I gave the guy a break when i said Jeremy dont take this topic wrong and think that i dont like you as a flagman but i was just wondering.
And besides would i have to give the guy a break had some of the cars nailed nelson while he was sitting by himself on the high side of turn 4? Then what would be said? Im just trying to point it out to him that his eyes should be on the whole track constantly and that if a car is sitting in turn 4 and the field starts in turn 4 he should have noticed it and when he did notice it instead of pretending to hit the flag stand with his fist he should have thrown the yellow. Thank god no one hit him but what about Dan had 2 cars bumped tires and one flew up the track coming out of 4 then dan would have been seriously injured thats what im saying yes i know nothing happened this time but it could have been bad
#15
Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:59 PM
I gave the guy a break when i said Jeremy dont take this topic wrong and think that i dont like you as a flagman but i was just wondering.
And besides would i have to give the guy a break had some of the cars nailed nelson while he was sitting by himself on the high side of turn 4? Then what would be said? Im just trying to point it out to him that his eyes should be on the whole track constantly and that if a car is sitting in turn 4 and the field starts in turn 4 he should have noticed it and when he did notice it instead of pretending to hit the flag stand with his fist he should have thrown the yellow. Thank god no one hit him but what about Dan had 2 cars bumped tires and one flew up the track coming out of 4 then dan would have been seriously injured thats what im saying yes i know nothing happened this time but it could have been bad
You're blaming the flag guy when the team pushed out onto the track with NO regard to what point the start was at? I understand rushing to get out, but you're blaming the cops for the guy speeding.
Secondly, I think the complaining might be a good sign? Fremont, Attica, Eldora, Lima ALL have weekly complainers, and they're all very successful tracks (well, the last one is debatable). Crowds, car counts, and complainers are up....sounds like things are picking up, and people are taking notice. I personally think Gerry, Dan, Jeremy, and Bridgette do a GREAT job.....and know if I have a question, I can ask one of them personally without making the messes these are on the message board.
Good suggestion on the neon rope....that will end this.
#16
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:35 PM
I would have thought this topic would be dead by now. But since everyone else is, I guess ill kick the dead horse too.
Don't bring in hypothetical events. The only one that matters is "what if the car did like he was supposed to and not enter the track." I cannot control what others do. I can only react to them. Racing is a very dangerous sport and people get hurt when things go badly. I wasn't careless in my actions. I didn't put the car there, I didn't put the track worker there. Me setting myself on fire wouldn't have prevented those actions of others. I let the field accelerate just like they would have anyway (even if I was waiving a yellow flag). I didn't turn on any lights until cars were clear and turned on yellow.
You say I should have seen him. No matter what from where I am standing (over the front stretch) I'd have to have eyes in the back of my head to see him pull onto the track. When I gave the field the one to go, he was in the staging area. Not on the track. My eyes were focused where they needed to be. On the field of sprint cars about ready to come at me under acceleration. When I did see he was on the track it was too late for lights or flags or sirens or anything.
You say its not a personal issue, and I still don't take it as such. But its like you're trying to prove a point and I don't know what it is.
I hope this doesn't turn into the last to post wins.
Jeremy
#17
Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:55 PM
Jeremy you are taking it personal!!!!! You keep posting allmost the same post everytime, LET IT GO. It will die as soon as you quit responding, Dan will tell you the same thing.
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
