16 replies to this topic

[born2raceit]

with one race left, wondered about some opinions of the ever popular subject of tires for the stocks for 2012. streets or hoosiers? cars are quicker on hoosiers and the cars handle better...yet most teams have streets and would cost some bucks to switch..opinions?

[kartracer229]

My vote is hoosiers, but thats just me. Now I have seen a car with DOT's on be very competative with cars on hoosiers. We tried DOT's for hotlaps, and hoosiers for heat and feature one night and my driver said there wasnt really a difference at all but feel, but thought the stop watch might indicate a small difference. I think cars should have the option of running Hoosiers ASAP. 1. Stock Cars are race cars, not the bombers of old. Every race track except Lima, Oakshade, and Eldora is allowing hoosiers/race tires in the stock cars, and even the waynesfield trucks. Why not Eldora and Lima? Lima complains that the stock cars tear up a wet track, but the reason they do is the DOT tires. Yet, in the last 30 years of running DOT tires they neglected to make a change and continue to call the stock cars the asses for it. 2. Hoosiers can be bought from mod teams, DOT's require a trip to the tire shop, tirerack.com shipment or a junkyard (which never happens). We got 13 Hoosiers, 1-2 races old, for 230 dollars. Where are you going to get deals like that on a DOT Tire? 3. I know some DOT tires that are just as expensive as a 8 inch hoosier. I saw a Indy 500 Firehawk for 110 dollars on the internet. I can get a new 8 inch UMP D, A, or H compound tire for 120. I also know for a fact Lima allows people to get away with blatant recaps without saying a word. 4. The hoosiers are a TON better tire. When was the last time you watched a hoosier completely rip the whole tread off of itself? Before anyone cries foul on this, if you run a D on the wrong track it WILL do so from poor design on their tread depth...choose wisely. I know I have seen it several times with the DOT tires for no apparent reason. 5. We personally have yet to chunk a Hoosier tire this year, we have sealed them and feathered them, but never chunked one. We purchased a couple DOT's from a friend, and had some with the car, we took 6 DOT's to eldora, 5 had massive chunks missing out of them, and managed to have steam rolling off of the right rear after the heat race. The problem isnt just tires, its ALOT of things. The rules for stock cars need a MASSIVE overhaul. Lima has some stupid rules, yet they have a tech inspection that some people are allowed to roll right through, others have to be sent through a million times. Heres problems with the Lima stocks I have seen this year. 1. The tech or lack there of. I know there are several cars with performance related items strictly prohibited in the rule book, yet your going to complain about 3/4 of an inch too wide on interior tin, stupid observation hole in your interior tin, spoiler height, how to place your stickers on your car and other stupid crap. Get real. 2. Does someone want to explain to me the 10.5 inch tire rule? Section 10 Line C states "c. Stock D.O.T. radial passenger tires only-must fit 10 1/2" inch hoop. No mud or snow tires, no recaps. Grooving optional. No bleeders." So, when we have a 235/70/15 and it rubs the hoop, how come 3 of the college cars have 255/70/15's on and they dont get caught? I do not own a car, but I have asked 6 or 7 people (knowledgeable from the stock cars) and all have told me that the tires will not fit the hoop, even with a 7.5 inch rim. So whats the deal here college? If anyone would like to see what I'm talking about, inquire the Limaland Photos, and check out when the college car won the feature a couple weeks ago and check out the Right Rear, if I wouldnt have noticed it being a monster, I never would have looked at the size. However, good job to the student, you looked fantastic that night. 3. Does anyone care to explain where exactly the start/finish line is at Lima since it is apparently different than any other track in the world?. 4. Snell 85 Helmet? I know I'm nitpicking, but come on, that helmet is a good 25+ years old which incidentally, seems like the last time the rule book was updated. Nobody needs to be told to chain or weld their doors shut anymore.You think a helmet has survived 20 years thats up to par to todays standards? Gloves and Fireproof shoes recommended? Gloves and Fireproof Shoes should be MANDATORY. Not getting into grusome detail, but you get my drift. I like the cars as they are (mostly), and the division produces some excellent racing. Theres several things that are killing auto racing anymore, Economy, Prices on everything have jumped way up, and several other things. But personally, I think Lima itself is the one thing that is killing themselves on their own stock car counts. They are called Lima/Eldora rules, and Lima produces 16-18 cars, Eldora produced 27 for Family Fun Night. Sorry for the long post, but its my views.

Edited by kartracer229, 21 August 2011 - 09:25 PM.

[blackflagmanwhaa]

Point being lima is not the problem its the mighty Big E lima will follow suit with the track that gets the most stock cars. If Eldora was to change lima would proably follow. Lima has some great special races for stock cars, plus the nascar money coming in and a great banquet. WRP allows the hoosiers and what 12 cars last week. Seems like lima has ran the same tires for years and you still get some great stock cars . Tires is not what is bring the car counts down its the economy plus the stock car class has got out of hand plus some have moved up to the mod class.. We all know that they are almost a mod with fenders and big motors. This is nothing about tires but just a cop out of some of lima. It wasnt a issue until the last yr when WRP decided to run stock cars again and let them run hoosiers. I think the only time that Lima said that the stocks tear up the track is the week that the track was soupy. If WRP is not teching the cars and allow any tire DOT or Hoosiers why arent they getting more cars? I heard Bowens wouldnt run lima because of no hoosiers, why arent they running WRP? With eldora cutting back so much with their stock car races i dont see why they get so many stock cars only because its the mighty E.

[Dirtracer48]

Point being lima is not the problem its the mighty Big E lima will follow suit with the track that gets the most stock cars. If Eldora was to change lima would proably follow. Lima has some great special races for stock cars, plus the nascar money coming in and a great banquet. WRP allows the hoosiers and what 12 cars last week. Seems like lima has ran the same tires for years and you still get some great stock cars . Tires is not what is bring the car counts down its the economy plus the stock car class has got out of hand plus some have moved up to the mod class.. We all know that they are almost a mod with fenders and big motors. This is nothing about tires but just a cop out of some of lima. It wasnt a issue until the last yr when WRP decided to run stock cars again and let them run hoosiers. I think the only time that Lima said that the stocks tear up the track is the week that the track was soupy. If WRP is not teching the cars and allow any tire DOT or Hoosiers why arent they getting more cars? I heard Bowens wouldnt run lima because of no hoosiers, why arent they running WRP? With eldora cutting back so much with their stock car races i dont see why they get so many stock cars only because its the mighty E.

A lot of the Waynesfield cars have been crashed up. Sure would like to see the counts come up.

[born2raceit]

cast iron intakes-you can get a good aluminum intake for 150-200 yet a good cast one is hard to find.

[stocker]

The stock car class is down for one reason it takes too much money to race every week. On the avg per week 2 pit passes $50.00 Fuel for car 5-7 gallons @ 7.00 =49.00 Fuel for truck, (NOT LIVING IN LIMA) 45.00 avg That right there is $144.00 per week not adding in food or drinks, This is Y the car counts are bad. There not going to spend 1/2 there pay check just to race everyweek. People can blame it on the tires, big motors, poor track prep, but the true out come is the mighty dollar. 5 years ago I had 3-5 cars at the track any given night and today it cost more to run one car. This is y the car counts are getting less and less.

[Dirtracer48]

Stocker is right on, except my expenses are slightly higher with a longer two. An oil change is $46 done every 2 weeks as well. Just the pit passes and fluids on a night dictate a 2nd-3rd place finish to even break even.

[DAZZLER]

Mr. Conover is exactly right, even when we raced back in the early 2000's i would spend on a average night over 150 before i even unloaded so we would have to finish in the top 3 just to break even, and the economy is pretty bad the average person just can't afford to do it, though we did have a good night 1 night we left Limaland with 2300 dollars that is probally 1 of the most any stock car has made on 1 night.

[skip]

Ive been saying that all along dazzler, and with people like you and others that put on the special shows at lima it adds a little bit to the high costs of trying to break even. Even though you have to pay to join the nascar thing it also adds to the payout at the end of the year. Its nice to see at least some tracks have been able to keep the prices down, thanks for that. Nothing but the economy that is dragging down the car counts has nothing to do with tires, tech, track officials or any thing else but just the economy.

[injunear]

Ive been saying that all along dazzler, and with people like you and others that put on the special shows at lima it adds a little bit to the high costs of trying to break even. Even though you have to pay to join the nascar thing it also adds to the payout at the end of the year. Its nice to see at least some tracks have been able to keep the prices down, thanks for that. Nothing but the economy that is dragging down the car counts has nothing to do with tires, tech, track officials or any thing else but just the economy.

agree with the grey haired guys. STOPS being fun after a while.

[born2raceit]

the economy does hurt but how does eldora pull 27 stocks when lima only only pulls 14. not counting the four college cars. WRP pulls thirty mods last week yet Lima pulls just over twenty. Even Montpelier pulls more mods than lima. Lima pays more than any track out there each night and in points. Could it be that lima is known for the best drivers and race cars and that cars won't come to bean town to run against the big boys? we know why the fastest Big E stocks don't come to lima...they aren't legal. If lima wants to follow Big E rules then Big E needs to enforce the rules. that and the load up if you don't like it mentality- or cutting heat races cause your street tires that we wanted you to stay on this year tear up the track comments have gotten old and drivers and owners took the advice...if you don't like don't come back. seems to me they haven't come back

[stocker]

You have had 4 of the fast guys from Eldora run lima this year, E Woodard, B Craig, K Gossard even D Pitts the 2 would be R Trent and M Dirkson and I belive Trent works nights and Mike says its to far to hall every week. There is just alot of cars from that area but I think they just can't get off work in time to get to lima!!!!

[skip]

Never thought about the friday night travel thing that could be a lot of it with work. I know thats why earnie has cut back on lima getting off work and trying to make it from ky to lima.

[born2raceit]

those are valid points as well but it wouldn't be stretchin it to think some of the rides down there aren't all legal..anytime you race where they don't tech and speed is everything you have to think its possible some cars aren't legit. regardless back to the main point-hoosiers or streets?

[Dirtracer48]

those are valid points as well but it wouldn't be stretchin it to think some of the rides down there aren't all legal..anytime you race where they don't tech and speed is everything you have to think its possible some cars aren't legit. regardless back to the main point-hoosiers or streets?

Yeah, but it might be a bit of a stretch to assume that just because they don't come to Lima, they're cheating.

If anyone wonders why I don't or haven't gone this year, here's why....

I believe a friendlier atmosphere would attract more drivers. The "we don't care if you come or not" attitude has been well established by Lima by the "if you don't like it don't come back" response by every person who inquires about anything they disagree with. WRP treats us well, and we feel welcome when we go there every week. I've never met the promoters of Montpelier, but they went out of their way to look me up and sent a message saying they'd love to have me come over sometime. That's great promotion, and the welcoming staff makes it a fun event for all of us. Surely, as we've already established there's NO money to be made here, and if one place is going to be more fun than another...that's where we're going to go. Please understand, I expect no one to kiss my ass or send me a written invitation to race....this is just my feelings and opinion on the situation.

Secondly, my car is 100% legal, as it was back from 2004-2007 when Holderman ran it there. I know for a fact though, that they don't care if I come or not, and it will be a huge hassle being nitpicked to death on everything imaginable if I come. I don't have an inspection panel in the car since my interior does not consist of the right side decking, so I wouldn't know where to put one...or furthermore WHY it would need one anyway. Add to it the DOT tires....I am a big fan of the Hoosiers, as they've performed excellent for us this year and last a LONG time if you properly take care of them. The 71 car was against them beginning of the season, and has dominated WRP on the same set all year. We ran Eldora on DOT tires this year, and tested them in hotlaps at WRP last week too. They weren't bad, but again I see no reason to stay on them at this point.

I'd really like to run Lima again, and might next year possibly. I'd strongly prefer to run Fridays over any other day, and there is a lot of great stuff going on there. I hope the LMP brass reconsiders their stance on certain issues to make it more friendly for visiting drivers.

[blackflagmanwhaa]

Then again no track should have to kiss a drivers A** to get some one to run there, treat them fair yes that they should do. But a personel message from Montpelier now is that a nice jester from one track going behind anothers back to try a draw cars to their track. I say that is sorta a low blow from them trying to draw cars from WRP or Eldora. What draws cars is knowing that they will have a place to run every week with some special purses and good pay outs. Every one knows lima has had some issues but unlike others there are a lot a racers who love racing at lima. There are bad calls at every track and there will always be some one who will go home mad about a call or some thing that happened. Look at earl with what happened with Ferkle years ago, and the deal with Kinser gonna load up and leave. Its a person call to race where they can maybe make some money or run just for the thrill. Its nice to be treated well goes a long way with drivers as well as good purses and point funds. Trying to break even after a night of racing is some thing that goes a long way with a racer.

Edited by blackflagmanwhaa, 26 August 2011 - 11:53 PM.

[Dirtracer48]

Then again no track should have to kiss a drivers A** to get some one to run there, treat them fair yes that they should do. But a personel message from Montpelier now is that a nice jester from one track going behind anothers back to try a draw cars to their track. I say that is sorta a low blow from them trying to draw cars from WRP or Eldora. What draws cars is knowing that they will have a place to run every week with some special purses and good pay outs. Every one knows lima has had some issues but unlike others there are a lot a racers who love racing at lima. There are bad calls at every track and there will always be some one who will go home mad about a call or some thing that happened. Look at earl with what happened with Ferkle years ago, and the deal with Kinser gonna load up and leave. Its a person call to race where they can maybe make some money or run just for the thrill.

Like I said, I expect no one to kiss my ass and that wasn't what I was getting at. I race WRP because I really like the track, the people, and I've NEVER had a problem with voicing a concern with them when it comes up. They appreciate those who support them, and I appreciate their efforts to be fair to all.

I didn't see that as any kind of back stabbing, truth is I only have the time and budget to race one night per week at most anyway. But I did appreciate the welcome from montpelier. They're doing a good job, and everyone I've spoken to that races or raced there had positive reports and impressions. Again, I was just stating why I haven't been to Lima this year. I considered it tonight, but after hearing of the demolition derby that ensued, I am glad the car stayed on jack stands.

Edited by Dirtracer48, 27 August 2011 - 12:07 AM.