59 replies to this topic

[Dirtracer48]

Just curious to others thoughts.... With the stock cars at their current expense to be competitive, and suffering car counts....what would people think about the idea of a B-mod division replacing them? IMCA, and a lot of other regions/tracks are going to this kind of division. Waynesfield had the guts to introduce non-wing cars to the state with great success. They also introduced the trucks which I'd consider to be quite successful as well. Maybe if enough committed to a B-mod series next season they could be put on the card? Here's my thoughts on what I'd like the rules to be. It would allow both the current stock car guys to move up, and current mod guys to make the transition reasonably cheap. Sad to say, I don't think the stock cars will be around much longer. Why: -Stock cars are dying in numbers. -Cheaper to find a decent used mod than a competitive stock car. -Same wheels/tires -Most all of the stock car frames are modifieds anyway, and could easily be converted back. -Some of the lesser funded mod teams could enter this division and be more competitive. How: -Current stock car payout/purse. -Full UMP mod roller, UMP rules. -Current Lima/Eldora/Waynesfield stock car engine rules. STEEL blocks, heads, CAST IRON INTAKE, 2 barrels....23 degree ONLY. HEI or points ignition only. Perhaps aluminum heads OK with a weight penalty to be determined by drivers vote. -Mechanical fuel pump only, gas or alky. -Any transmission -Quick change OK. I'd be the first to sign up for the deal.

[WootenRacing17]

good idea

Edited by WootenRacing17, 10 July 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[WootenRacing17]

I suggested same thing to roger slack but I said 350 Chevy 351 ford and 360 dodge and he said he didn't like two class that look the same and also wrote to Dan Kell and he said that could be talk about in off-season meetings

[double checkered]

Not that I am against this idea, just some observations. Would you allow camaro clips for guys that want to convert stock cars? I kinda feel its just really taking one class and starting a new one. I'm not sure there would be a benefit in cars. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I would think you would see the same result. Another thing that bothers me as a fan is that its another "modified". What is the difference in appearance. 305, 360, 410 sprints all look the same. Super lates, crate lates, sportmans all look the same except spoiler I think. It makes it confusing for average fan to understand the difference in class. I like the think outside the box idea. And it could work over time. Ease of parts swaping between classes. Can move up/down a class with minimal cost. But is wrp willing to "create" another class? Are they going to continue to run as many classes next year? Only 1 person knows. That person isn't me. Nice idea Tim I'd like to see something work to get "your" car counts up. Jeremy

[compact racer]

I seen b mods before and thought that would be a sweet class but the ones I saw were not nearly as wild as rules your thinking. I'm sure they were all leaf spring cars with all cast iron motors.

[Dirtracer48]

I suggested same thing to roger slack but I said 350 Chevy 351 ford and 360 dodge and he said he didn't like two class that look the same and also wrote to Dan Kell
and he said that could be talk about in off-season meetings

I really like the idea too, but a cubic inch limit would make it hard for a lot of guys to move up/down to the division without spending a lot of money. That, and it is next to impossible to police.

Not that I am against this idea, just some observations. Would you allow camaro clips for guys that want to convert stock cars?

Well, of course. My car is actually 70 chevelle. A clip is a clip is a clip

I kinda feel its just really taking one class and starting a new one. I'm not sure there would be a benefit in cars.

Well, it kinda would be doing that. The benefits would be:
-Cheaper to find a good mod roller than a good stock car roller.
-Some of the guys in the current mod platform could become more competitive on their current budget without racing against $30k plus, exotic 9/14/18 degree engines.
-New guys considering racing who don't want to get into a dying division or have the money to field a current mod have a good option, and a great place to start.
-The whole drivetrain from a stock car could drop right in, and go race.
-Minimal changes could make most of the current UMP mods legal for the class, and be more competitive.
-If XXXX has one, they could put a 4 barrel on and go race about any track in the country legally.
-Mods are the most popular, and populated dirt division in the US.
-The used market is stacked full of good used equipment.
-Easy enough to move to the full UMP mod if you decided you want to move up.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I would think you would see the same result.

Maybe, but the growth of these kinds of b/sport mods in other areas regions say otherwise.

Another thing that bothers me as a fan is that its another "modified". What is the difference in appearance. 305, 360, 410 sprints all look the same. Super lates, crate lates, sportmans all look the same except spoiler I think. It makes it confusing for average fan to understand the difference in class.

Aesthetics are the furthest thing from the point here. Getting car counts up, and putting on a good show without breaking the racers bank are my points. But, all the divisions you just mentioned are all thriving, except sportsman...who only have one area track to run. See the connection?

I like the think outside the box idea. And it could work over time. Ease of parts swaping between classes. Can move up/down a class with minimal cost.

Ahh yes grasshopper, you get it.

But is wrp willing to "create" another class? Are they going to continue to run as many classes next year? Only 1 person knows. That person isn't me.

Nice idea Tim I'd like to see something work to get "your" car counts up.

Me too, but I am not sure what I can do. I bring my equipment out every weekend barring catastrophe (such as last week). I also help out as many guys as I can in any way, but I can't force people to build the cars.

I seen b mods before and thought that would be a sweet class but the ones I saw were not nearly as wild as rules your thinking. I'm sure they were all leaf spring cars with all cast iron motors.

Ha, we already have those....they just have fenders, nose and tail...and can only race at a few tracks The rules ideas I posted were in the thought of keeping prices reasonable for both guys moving up or down in the division....replacing a minimal amount of stuff. I agree on the all steel motor, but it might be harder to draw from the current mod guys. Perhaps adding weight to the front of the car to run aluminum heads, other tracks have done it. The cast iron intake and 2bbl are the choker collars here....big heads/cams don't help any with that configuration on top.

I am pretty sure I am going to go mods either way next season, and I know if my current engines were usable as it, it makes the change a lot cheaper. I know 2 stock guys went mods last year, and from the sound of it at least 2 more after this season.

[double checkered]

Don't think I was trying to argue with you. I like the idea. The reason I asked about camaro clips is because they aren't ump legal. Not real sure why since all of the mounting positions are changed anyway. But rule says full frame car which a camaro is not. I know a lot of the sport mods in other parts still use factory rear suspension. I know that's not the class you're going for. And the only reason I brought up the "its another mod" was because when I was a kid there were big block modifieds, small block modifieds, sportman modifieds, crate modifieds that looked exactly the same and ran at the same track. As a kid I got bored with another class of modifieds and didn't know which class was which. I know you have been very supportive of "your" class. Please don't think I'm trying to single you out for the reason for low counts. (Sorry to hear about your rough week). There have been several first time winners at wrp this year. Im sure there's room for 1 more. Hope to see you NEXT week. Jeremy

[mod13]

B-Mods are very popular in most other regions of the country. Modifieds are ran almost everywhere in the US and the inhabited parts of Canada. Its alot easier to find used Mods and parts then almost any other vehicle. Modifieds in their current state haven't really been around that long. I remember when they rolled one out at Limaland, late 80's early 90's and said they were gonna start running them. Everyone said they looked cool but no way would people buy/build one. Alot of the early ones were Eldora street stocks that were changed over. I think stock cars are about finished in this area. Its just getting cheaper to buy a used Mod then build a stock car. Within 5 years A-Mods and B-Mods will be whats ran at most tracks instead of stocks. Its already happening around the country and itll happen here too. Just my opinion.

[intimidator 1]

I agree that the stock cars are dying and its a shame, started there and thats where i had the most fun. You are right about starting the Bmods though, but don't reinvent the wheel. UMP already has the rules and nationwide governing body for them, so best go with them so that if you wanted you could take a road trip to race other tracks and racers. Just my opinion

[Dirtracer48]

I agree that the stock cars are dying and its a shame, started there and thats where i had the most fun. You are right about starting the Bmods though, but don't reinvent the wheel. UMP already has the rules and nationwide governing body for them, so best go with them so that if you wanted you could take a road trip to race other tracks and racers. Just my opinion

Only thing I see on the dirtcar site is a few different sets of rules scattered all over the place. The only thing I like about the rules I was able to find is "2 barrel carb". The rest of them cause for racers to spend even more money to build all new stuff. "Spec" parts and crate motors have failed time and time again. Too many ways to cheat. I wonder if a couple tracks went with rules like I mentioned, if it could be dirtcar/ump approved in their own way. Such as Limaland's stock cars filing points under the nascar Charger division....the cars aren't even close to their rules description. Same with oakshade sportsman....quite a bit different than the UMP sportsman rules state. I personally wouldn't see the appeal in going to a b-mod if I had to replace my engines, or rebuild them as solid lift, etc. The no bert/brinn kind of makes me scratch my head too. Priced a good three speed, triple disc, throwout bearing and bell lately?

Glad to see there's so much mutual interest in the idea! Just say no to crates and spec parts though!

Edited by Dirtracer48, 11 July 2012 - 01:01 AM.

[compact racer]

One thing for sure stocks are a dieing breed every where dirt or asphalt. Most of that is because they are now as costly as a mod just like has been pointed out in this post. The thing I see is that it is a tremendous leap from compacts or trucks to anything. Seems to me that we need a class that would allow the ones who can't afford to go to mods to drop down and others to move up without hitting the lottery. I don't have any perfect answers for sure but I know if you go to b mods with loose rules you'll end up with just two classes of mods. v8 trucks might be an idea. A real bomber class would appeal to others. Even though we have one compacts are not catching on real quick at WRP even though they are the biggest draw at many tracks. Trucks even though they run hardly any where else around here seem to be pretty darn set. Like I say I don't have any perfect answers but I do see the reason for concern. Mike Durflinger

[WootenRacing17]

I will race anything as long as its a v8 that's all but it need's to be reasonable cost, because Mods are way out of hand if you ask me and stock cars are bad enough but nothing against 4cylinders I just like my race car to sound like a race car and have some power.....

[Dirtracer48]

I will race anything as long as its a v8 that's all but it need's to be reasonable cost, because Mods are way out of hand if you ask me and stock cars are bad enough but nothing against 4cylinders I just like my race car to sound like a race car and have some power.....

I'm with ya, I always kinda felt the same way. The couple mod guys I know are pretty interested in this potential division as well. I'm definitely in if it goes that way....I'm pretty sure I am getting a mod for next year anyway. The B-mod division would personally save me thousands by just bolting my existing motor in and going.

[WootenRacing17]

If they do they want to have a new class like this they better act fast for us stock car drivers so we can get are stocks sold before stock cars are gone at every track because then it would be hard to sell.......

Edited by WootenRacing17, 12 July 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[mod13]

Union County speedway in Liberty Indiana has B-mods on their schedule this year. I have no idea if they are getting any cars, but its on the schedule. I would bet that as the year goes on, they will start getting cars, and next year they will have even more. If you show that you are gona run them, people will start building/buying. Even if you build a B-Mod, if no one races them locally, run with the mods until the B-mods gain a foothold. Lima doesn't usually have a full field of cars, so you would make the feature.

[Dirtracer48]

If they do they want to have a new class like this they better act fast for us stock car drivers so we can get are stocks sold before stock cars are gone at every track because then it would be hard to sell.......

I agree, I guess that's why it is a good idea to start talking about it now so guys would have time to use up and or sell/build stuff at the end of the season. Questions we'd need answered though: How many guys would have to commit to a division to make it viable for tracks to pick up? What tracks would we look for to pick it up? What about the stock cars for guys who can't move up right now? Perhaps dropping the weight rule and allowing the stock car guys to run with the B cars next year? I think this sounds like there is a lot of interest, including those who don't post on the internet. I don't think there would be any trouble getting 10-14 guys to commit to this kind of division before the season started. It seems like we'd need someone to kind of take charge of the ideas, gather a head count, and present it to the tracks. It's something I hope Waynesfield in particular, but Lima and Eldora would consider as well.

[WootenRacing17]

I agree, I guess that's why it is a good idea to start talking about it now so guys would have time to use up and or sell/build stuff at the end of the season. Questions we'd need answered though: How many guys would have to commit to a division to make it viable for tracks to pick up? What tracks would we look for to pick it up? What about the stock cars for guys who can't move up right now? Perhaps dropping the weight rule and allowing the stock car guys to run with the B cars next year? I think this sounds like there is a lot of interest, including those who don't post on the internet. I don't think there would be any trouble getting 10-14 guys to commit to this kind of division before the season started. It seems like we'd need someone to kind of take charge of the ideas, gather a head count, and present it to the tracks. It's something I hope Waynesfield in particular, but Lima and Eldora would consider as well.

I agree like Me and most likely dad and Mark will only go to a B mod as long as two tracks pick it up like Waynesfield and limaland or Waynesfield and Eldora I will have mine posted for sale next week LOL.....Also the question about how would people know the difference? Inform the track announcer what is different about the Mods and Bmods so he can inform the Audience..... I think this could be a really good idea if others show interested, maybe see if we can have a vote during driver meetings at those 3 Track sometime soon to see who would and wouldn't...

Edited by WootenRacing17, 12 July 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[double checkered]

I place 1 vote for Mr. Tim Cole to lead the charge. I like the idea of letting stocks run too. I don't know if you can skinny up a stocker enough to get down to fighting weight with a mod. Do you think they would be competitive? I know a stocker is giving up quite a bit when it comes to percentages and suspension design both front and rear. Stockers get 4 barrels? Just adding to discussion. Jeremy

[WootenRacing17]

also I prefer no Aluminum heads, also gas only just my thoughts on that issue but maybe we can have left rear beadlocks....haha Just kidding on that one

[Dirtracer48]

also I prefer no Aluminum heads, also gas only just my thoughts on that issue but maybe we can have left rear beadlocks....haha Just kidding on that one

Actually, the stocks have no beadlock rule...it would be nice to have a season to "use em up" since all but a couple I own are beadlocks. I agree on the aluminum too, but again I am kinda thinking that the transition for the first year would have to be semi-friendly to the UMP cars if you wanted them to move down. Aluminum isn't inherently faster, there's just more good heads available in aluminum. Make em put 50 pounds on the front of the motor plate, the restrictor which are the carb and intake would take care of the rest. After a "use em up" season, the rules could be more uniform. Again, just my thoughts. I don't think I have the time, or contacts for any kind of leadership role in the division...but would be glad to assist and help someone else who could. I just have a lot of thoughts and ideas