18 replies to this topic

[dirtstudent2]

If you had one place on the track where you would like to have the advantage of being able to out accelerate every other car, what place on the track would you choose?

[KartRacer1]

Coming out of the corners. I believe that getting good corner entry and apex are slightly easier due to the car being off the throttle at most tracks. I feel that the most difficult portion of the track to tune to is corner exit.

[jon sleepy]

you need too 94 fan 1 she or ho ever hell , they know every thing just ask them

[dylchris]

another vote for corner exit but at the exact time the car is straight already rotated.

[dirt dad]

Corner exit is very important to me as well. Anybody can run hard into the corner, but finding a balance to still have a great corner exit is what can be the difference between running up front or in the back. With that being said, if the handling is extremely tight or loose on entry .....the car will not come off the corner as good as it could be.

[NorthernExposure]

Anybody can run hard into the corner... the difference is whether or not they can run in hard and stick. Traction on exit is not as important as being able to enter the corner and get thru the middle with speed. If you can enter and get through the middle... momentum can carry you off the corner and allows you to pick up throttle more quickly without spinning the tires. Entry is the name of the game in racing these days.

[JRBmachine]

Anybody can run hard into the corner... the difference is whether or not they can run in hard and stick. Traction on exit is not as important as being able to enter the corner and get thru the middle with speed. If you can enter and get through the middle... momentum can carry you off the corner and allows you to pick up throttle more quickly without spinning the tires. Entry is the name of the game in racing these days.

I agree...better in,better off.

Edited by JRBmachine, 07 August 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Dingo]

I always built and set up my cars to go fast through and come off the corners quick. Vote for coming off the corners here too.

[dirtstudent2]

If you had one place on the track where you would like to have the advantage of being able to out accelerate every other car, what place on the track would you choose?

I thought it would be simple to answer. I didn't realize how much would be read into a simple question.

Out accelerate in the question means you can increase your speed at a higher rate then other cars. The track has turns and straights. I'll split up the track so anyone who wants can pick a part of the track. If you don't like how I split up the track, name your own part of the track. I want to say choose two parts together if you want, but that would make for too many possibilities. I'm not asking about when your coasting or rolling and I'm not asking about when your slowing down. The place you would like most to have an advantage accelerating, may even be a part of the track where most think you would be slowing down or coasting.

Here the list.

Entry to the straight
On the straight
The exit of the straight
Turn entry
From turn entry to the apex
The apex
From the apex to turn exit
Turn exit

Turn exit and the entry to the straight are hard to seperate out, but I did it even though they will be hard to consider seperatly.

I think that's enough and has the whole track covered.

I think any place on the track I listed you could setup to accelerate. Which one would give you the greatest advantage over all, making it worth setting up to be able to out accelerate others?

If there is a hard part to the question, it's forcing yourself to realize you have to slow down somewhere to be able to accelerate.

You can't be faster then everyone at all places around the track, so like it or not when you setup or drive, you are selecting one place or places on the track to be faster at then others. I didn't ask about where you think you could give up some speed to others, knowing you can make it up somewhere else. Maybe my question did ask it in a round about way, but it was not intended.

The reason for this question is I was just courious to see what people would say.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 07 August 2012 - 09:21 PM.

[BUTTBEAK]

The start of course, you run FRF (flat right footed) if you car is perfect.

[dirtstudent2]

The start of course, you run FRF (flat right footed) if you car is perfect.

Great reply I never thought about the start when writing.

But even if you flat foot it all the way around, after the start your still going to have to slow down some where on the track. Isn't it usually either turn entry or the wall where flat footers do their slowing down? If I'm calling it right, would you want to start accelerating right after the wall started slowing you down or scrap along it for awhile, starting your acceleration at a later point around the track? If a flat footer uses turn entry to slow down, would it be best to roll the turn a little or immediatly start down the bank accelerating?

I'm asking if there is one place that's best to do the accelerating. From the amount of interest in the Bird post on here, heck some might choose right after saying hello to Mr Wall. But then would it be faster accelerating if you had another car, squeezed up between you and Mr Wall?

The exit of the turn and on to the start of the straight was mentioned. Then it was added how entry effects exit. I've noticed how cars either running the bottom or chopping off entry, can have problems on exit. I think the problem is a combination of still turning, starting your acceleration and being positioned down low comming off, with track banking above. It happens so often I have my own rule dealing with it and the rule is "You can't turn and accelerat up hill without pushing".

I expect many to say drifting up the bank accelerating is the fastest way to come off the corner and we setup to do it. I'm going to counter by saying it's not fast to drift up the bank comming off the corner. I think any time you drift a car anywhere your using up lateral grip in your tires, when you could be putting the lateral grip towards accelerrating. It's a fine line to see out on the track, weather a car is drifting up the straight comming off or driving straight towards the entry of the next turn. Sorry I just got into some fun writing and got off the subject.

I'm still wondering what most will choose for the best place on the track to be able to out accelerate other cars.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 08 August 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[BUTTBEAK]

Into the corner is my # 2 answer, where most are slowing down, sure makes it easy to get position on track!

[ItsmeItsme]

ah... Finish line...

[BUTTBEAK]

Great reply I never thought about the start when writing.

But even if you flat foot it all the way around, after the start your still going to have to slow down some where on the track. Isn't it usually either turn entry or the wall where flat footers do their slowing down? If I'm calling it right, would you want to start accelerating right after the wall started slowing you down or scrap along it for awhile, starting your acceleration at a later point around the track? If a flat footer uses turn entry to slow down, would it be best to roll the turn a little or immediatly start down the bank accelerating?

I'm asking if there is one place that's best to do the accelerating. From the amount of interest in the Bird post on here, heck some might choose right after saying hello to Mr Wall. But then would it be faster accelerating if you had another car, squeezed up between you and Mr Wall?

The exit of the turn and on to the start of the straight was mentioned. Then it was added how entry effects exit. I've noticed how cars either running the bottom or chopping off entry, can have problems on exit. I think the problem is a combination of still turning, starting your acceleration and being positioned down low comming off, with track banking above. It happens so often I have my own rule dealing with it and the rule is "You can't turn and accelerat up hill without pushing".

I expect many to say drifting up the bank accelerating is the fastest way to come off the corner and we setup to do it. I'm going to counter by saying it's not fast to drift up the bank comming off the corner. I think any time you drift a car anywhere your using up lateral grip in your tires, when you could be putting the lateral grip towards accelerrating. It's a fine line to see out on the track, weather a car is drifting up the straight comming off or driving straight towards the entry of the next turn. Sorry I just got into some fun writing and got off the subject.

I'm still wondering what most will choose for the best place on the track to be able to out accelerate other cars.

Your goal, in circle track racing is to be able to run wide open, all the way around the track, correct?

[dirtstudent2]

Your goal, in circle track racing is to be able to run wide open, all the way around the track, correct?

No, racing has just one goal and it's to win.


Along the way to the goal because of the nature of circle track racing, a lot of other things come into it. Along the way your likley to experience all emotions known to man. It's what your personality needs from racing to feed your cravings, be it fan, pit crew, show worker or promotor, that can get you addictied to the sport.

What is the ultimate reward you can get from racing? IMHO, to win in such a convincing fashion it humbles the rest of the racers to the extent they wonder why they even race. To win with every other car a lap down yet only one lap down.

Back to flat footing all the way around the track. I see just four conditions where flat footing may be the way to go. One is if the track is perfectly round. Second is if your available hp is not enough to over come the tracks available grip and because of what your required to race, you cannot free the car up. And third if you are able to run at the absolute limit of grip and the track configuration allows you to use it and braking while being on the throttle to maintain racing at the absolute limit of grip. The fourth condition where a driver can run wide open is when they are able to spin tires, yet be able to get around the track.

Of the four the only one I see being a likely reason for a driver to run wide open all around the track is the second, where available hp does not exceed available grip. It's possible to run flat footed and run at the limit of grip, but IMHO unless the track is perfectly round or if your able to run at the limit of grip at all places around the track, I don't think it would be the fastest way around the track. What conditions do you think would make running flat footed fastest? My reason to be on here in the first place is to have fun writing, hoping someone will tell me I wrote is wrong, explain what's wrong and allow me to learn something from being corrected. This racing thing along with being addictive is very complicated and I think there's a lot more to it then just pushing the go pedal...

[Dawg]

My earlier post never showed up... Anyway - I have always have been a person who likes to get into the corner and through the apex as fast as possible. If I get the car turned quicker - my acceleration off will be much better. I firmly believe that the better you enter and turn in the middle sets up how well and how hooked up you are coming off. If you struggle in the first part or at the apex - and are not able to hook it up from that point and kill any acceleration off.

Edited by Dawg, 14 August 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[dirtstudent2]

Into the corner is my # 2 answer, where most are slowing down, sure makes it easy to get position on track!

Your answer sounds like a very good place to be able to out accelerate others.

I'm not directing this reply to just BUTTBEAK, I'm asking anyone to help throw some ideas in here. May be it's just common knowledge how to do it and explinations will flow. Or, may be it's not common knowledge and just a few have the knowledge and skill to do it? I don't know so I'm asking.

Is it an area nobody will want to comment on because it would be giving away secrets?

Maybe can't be done with a conventional (wingless) LTO car?

I'm asking all these questions hoping to learn someting about the possibility of latemodels and conventional LTO cars in general, being able to accelerate from turn in to the apex.

Given the acceleration forces and centrifical forces accelerating from turn in to the apex, how would you setup to do it. I think a latemodel would have the best possibility to do it, so specifically how would setup in general to do it with a latemodel. When I ask 'in general' I'm hoping to see things in a reply like, to get it to do this you would dump weight here, raise this up or lower this, do this to direct forces here or there... etc..

Thanks and I hope I asked the questions ok.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 14 August 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[dirt dad]

I enjoy being able to get the car to accelerate coming off the corners when the track is slick. (should have been more specific earlier) its fun to listen to other Cars lighting up their tires while I'm getting traction and just driving past them. As far as running the bottom and pushing on exit, it all depends on the angle of entry....as you said pinching the car off. If you take a good entry and the car rotates through the middle you should be able to come off the corner well. The interesting thing about this topic is if the car doesn't roll the corner, and its not super tight, a lot of the time it will eventually turn coming off and you will have to chase the rear of the car up the track. There are a lot of drivers in this scenario that actually think the car is loose on exit because the exit of the corner is the last thing they remember from the corner.....I've been guilty of this in the past too

Great reply I never thought about the start when writing.

But even if you flat foot it all the way around, after the start your still going to have to slow down some where on the track. Isn't it usually either turn entry or the wall where flat footers do their slowing down? If I'm calling it right, would you want to start accelerating right after the wall started slowing you down or scrap along it for awhile, starting your acceleration at a later point around the track? If a flat footer uses turn entry to slow down, would it be best to roll the turn a little or immediatly start down the bank accelerating?

I'm asking if there is one place that's best to do the accelerating. From the amount of interest in the Bird post on here, heck some might choose right after saying hello to Mr Wall. But then would it be faster accelerating if you had another car, squeezed up between you and Mr Wall?

The exit of the turn and on to the start of the straight was mentioned. Then it was added how entry effects exit. I've noticed how cars either running the bottom or chopping off entry, can have problems on exit. I think the problem is a combination of still turning, starting your acceleration and being positioned down low comming off, with track banking above. It happens so often I have my own rule dealing with it and the rule is "You can't turn and accelerat up hill without pushing".

I expect many to say drifting up the bank accelerating is the fastest way to come off the corner and we setup to do it. I'm going to counter by saying it's not fast to drift up the bank comming off the corner. I think any time you drift a car anywhere your using up lateral grip in your tires, when you could be putting the lateral grip towards accelerrating. It's a fine line to see out on the track, weather a car is drifting up the straight comming off or driving straight towards the entry of the next turn. Sorry I just got into some fun writing and got off the subject.

I'm still wondering what most will choose for the best place on the track to be able to out accelerate other cars.

[dirtstudent2]

>snip< The interesting thing about this topic is if the car doesn't roll the corner, and its not super tight, a lot of the time it will eventually turn coming off and you will have to chase the rear of the car up the track. There are a lot of drivers in this scenario that actually think the car is loose on exit because the exit of the corner is the last thing they remember from the corner.....I've been guilty of this in the past too

What a great example. And what's really bad is the driver will come in complaining it's loose off, when the problem is tight in. I'm not sure but I think what happens in what your saying is as follows. Because it's tight the driver turns the wheel gaining grip, it starts to feel good they are able to start the front turning. Then the wheel is turned just a bit too much gaining a little too much grip. Next it's too much grip up front, the balance is gone and the driver thinks the thing is loose off because they induced too much front grip.

But why was it tight in to begin with? Was it because of the driver or the car? How could the driver test out on the track to see if it's the car or not? If there was some sort of test the driver could do, to validate their opinion of tight or loose, what would it be? Would it be worth loosing a little hustle in a heat if your not up front anyway, to find out?

Edited by dirtstudent2, 21 August 2012 - 05:12 PM.