200 replies to this topic

[Chuckball5]

10-4.

[Makin Dust]

What is the reasoning behind "not wanting anything to do with" crate racing at this place? Wouldn't it make sense to want to be involved with these guys??? The series in the North East Region is growing like wild fire and now that the RUSH Series is starting up.. it would make sense to me?

Who in there right mine wouldn't want 20+ crates at there track from the get-go every sat. nite... Lotta guys are lookin for a place to race beside goin to Roaring Knob. The new semi-late class would take a few years to produce a 20 car field.

[Express Man]

[quote name='dylchris' date='Nov 20 2012, 02:45 AM' post='354953']
Jeff considered the crate late division as his LM class but the area is more steelblock and aluminum block lates; so he made a decision to support the cars

With all due respect......How does 2400 lbs equal the playing field???? When Greg Satterly pulls in with his 800hp 50k Roush Yates...And Robbie Allen as crew chief, weighing 2400lbs....He will run over the competition! As will most other dedicated Superlate guys! But the problem is ....they will never come because they don't want to race with 600hp steelblock cars! I don't understand why you people don't get it! Make your latemodel class a blend of steelblock...358....and 604 crate! You will get moore cars! No aluminum engines! Then if you want to have a better paying race for the SuperLatemodel(Aluminum engine cars) ....have one! Trying to blend the 100k cars with the 35k cars doesn't work! It discourages drivers from both sides of the fence! Most of the tracks up that way don't allow Aluminum engine cars anyway! (Humingbird Hesston Thundermoutain) Just my .02

[Express Man]

[quote name='dylchris' date='Nov 20 2012, 02:45 AM' post='354953']
Jeff considered the crate late division as his LM class but the area is more steelblock and aluminum block lates; so he made a decision to support the cars in

Case in point...... In 2007 Sheetz MaGarvey was driving Tom Gills Ford out of Altoona! They decide to go to dog Hollow one Friday night! Dog had the 2400lbs rule in effect like you peopel want to do! Sheetz was a 325lb person driving a Ford......which with a Fountaine Aluminum block, like it was...was allready 72lbs heaverier than a Chevy motor(Aluminum) They had to add no weight! They would of liked to get the car to 2400 lbs! The average dirt latemodel with an aluminum chevy engine it weighs about 2100-2115 with 20 gallons of fuel and no driver! How much does your driver weigh???? If its 235lbs....you are at 2350 without filing up the fuel! 12 moore gallons of fuel another 75-80 lbs! So now you are at 2430???? How much to run the feature at a small track like that???? 4-5 gallons of gas???? You make weight! With a Ford motor...your 35-70lbs heavy depending what block you run(Aluminum) So where is the peanalty???? Shouldn't it be like 2600 to level the playing field???? For an aluminum engine car??? And still 2400 for a steel block! Here is why! 604 crate....410hp 358 spec motor....600hp a real good one! 358 Steel Block Bandit Motor???? Maybe 650 hp a really good one! Open steelblock motor??????Maybe 700hp a super good one! Roush Yates....Cornett...Custom.....Hershey.....Vic Hill..... Baker......Clements.....Malquit.....Draine.....Edge...... Kriner......800hp +. Steel block engines are budget engines! They are not up to pare for the most part with the Big name aluminum motor builders! So No....Making Mike Blose or Greg Satterly or Chub frank weigh 2400lbs is not a level playing field! But Maybe 2600 is! But they aren't going to do that! There will allways be that one guy that wants to win that will come with a top Superlate aluminum motor just to win every week! I have seen it before....AKA Wally Stock at Windber in the early nienties He came everyweek with a 710 hp 18degree all aluminum Jules motor worth 30k in that day to race guys with a home built 377, makeing 550hp and 2x3 frame car! He won every week! He Spanked them Boys as he used to say! But he should have! But how many other cars did this discourage! Ask Jim Michney......It doesn't work! You can't mix the money guys with the budget guys! Keep your latemodel division a steel block division! Moore cars...better racing...moore fans! Just my .02

[D1RT]

Express Man the problem is there isn't enough cars to have just super lates or steel block lates as a solo division. Look at the car counts at Bedford, TVR, and Marion Center who have separate divisions for both classes. Neither have 20 car fields and some wouldn't have have a 20 car field if you combined both classes. Ask Rod Phillips how competitive a steel block that weighed well over 2400# is against the high dollar aluminum engines on a small track. He damn near won the Fall Classic at McKean County a few years ago with his and how about out mutual friend Chris Rhodes who wins more than a few super late races with his steel block. It will be really interesting to see how three tracks running the same nights pretty close to each other will pull decent car counts when only two were running last year and couldn't get full fields in any of their divisions.....

[rsadiedog]

First of all, the only difference between the steel block engine rules and the aluminum block engine rules is the material of the block! The last time I checked you don't make much horsepower out of a change in block composition. There are plenty of steel block motors out there that make the same 750-800+ hp as the aluminum block motors. And the weight difference bewteen the two is not as much as it used to be with some of the new steel blocks out there. So running the two together is not as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be. Basically the Steel Block latemodel rules is a promotors dream, the cars are just as fast as the super lates, but now they have an excuse to cut the payout back! If you want a budget motor late model class, make some real motor rules, oh wait, that is what Jeff Taylor did by creating the semi-late class! Secondly, these smaller tracks are not necisarilly 'horsepower" tracks, for example they run aluminum and steel blocks together at Clinton Co. and they both win equally! If you don't believe me just ask Luke Hoffner, Harry Miller, or Dan Smeal, they all won at Cliinton Co.this year with a Steel Block.

[plymouth-man]

Express Man- With all due respect......How does 2400 lbs equal the playing field???? When Greg Satterly pulls in with his 800hp 50k Roush Yates...And Robbie Allen as crew chief, weighing 2400lbs....He will run over the competition! As will most other dedicated Superlate guys! But the problem is ....they will never come because they don't want to race with 600hp steelblock cars! I don't understand why you people don't get it! Make your latemodel class a blend of steelblock...358....and 604 crate! You will get moore cars! No aluminum engines! Then if you want to have a better paying race for the SuperLatemodel(Aluminum engine cars) ....have one! Trying to blend the 100k cars with the 35k cars doesn't work! It discourages drivers from both sides of the fence! Most of the tracks up that way don't allow Aluminum engine cars anyway! (Humingbird Hesston Thundermoutain) Just my .02

Sorry but this isn't the case, if you have ever watched the mixed field of cars at hummingbird during their special, steelblocks are right there with the supers on that small track. A decent built steelblock is going to be around 750 hp and that is even too much for a small track like HB or ARP. The key to winning on those tracks is traction, a guy could have 1000 hp on a small track and all he is going to do is spin and burn the tires off. I believe there will be between 20-24 cars in this class every night and that a decent turnout these days.

Edited by plymouth-man, 20 November 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[race ace]

the thing is there was a meeting for drivers / owners to come to and voice their opinion and it was announced weeks before it happened, if the drivers / owners had a thought it should have been brought up at the meeting. besides where else around here can you go to compete weekly for a thousand dollar purse i will guarantee you Marion center don't pay that and neither does Hummingbird . i guess if you don't like it you don't show up and race but Clinton county runs both their steel block and aluminum block cars together and i have seen steel blocks win there more than once .

[Express Man]

[quote name='D1RT' date='Nov 20 2012, 03:05 PM' post='354986']
Express Man the problem is there isn't enough cars to have just super lates or steel block lates as a solo division.
Look at the car counts at Bedford,

All I was trying to point out is that 2400 isn't really a peanalty to the Ford Boys! And that 2600 FOR THE ALUMINUM MOTOR CARS would be moore like it! Trying to bring budget into play! Most Steel block engines aren't 750-800 hp! And they aren't in big budget cars! Would it be good racing if Rodey brought his Superlate up at 2400 and won every night??? Or would it be better racing if cars realitivily with the same budge, or better funded teams with a little moore disdadvantage raced each other for the win every night??? And I would like to weigh Chris's steel block! I think you will find that it went to the milling machine and is not any heavier than a ford engine in aluminum would be! He won this year with an all aluminumm Ed Powell engine in the car! But won four times last year with his lightened steel block! I'll agree on the car counts! Just trying to see good even racing happening there from the beginning! Good Luck to all in all divisions!

[suhoney18]

the thing is there was a meeting for drivers / owners to come to and voice their opinion and it was announced weeks before it happened, if the drivers / owners had a thought it should have been brought up at the meeting. besides where else around here can you go to compete weekly for a thousand dollar purse i will guarantee you Marion center don't pay that and neither does Hummingbird . i guess if you don't like it you don't show up and race but Clinton county runs both their steel block and aluminum block cars together and i have seen steel blocks win there more than once .

$1000 to win is fact or just what you heard?

[Chuck Stevens]

He is correct about the payout and it was given out for all divisions at the meeting.We wish more people could have attended but it is what it is.Jeff believes the teams that came where very respectful and were very easy to work with.There were only two crate teams there and did not seem like the crate teams were interested in racing there.I think Jeff has in mind to run them in some specials.

[dylchris]

The same teams that can spend the money on the Aluminum can spend it on the steel engine as well, and you may be surprised how many 700 -750 some 800, it depends on what the teams want to spend.,Steel blocks there are. I know won, and sb2 that Chris built that make huge power and by the way the lightened dart iron block is les than 20 pounds heavier han the aluminum block. I spoke to many prominent engine builders and not one said that they cannot get the same power out of the iron block, and for the record there are several touring teams that have steel block engines as well. 2400 pounds does level the field in most cases; the Ford guys chsoe to run them, if a driver weighs 300 pounds, should the entire field be penalized for that? I think not. ] All I was trying to point out is that 2400 isn't really a peanalty to the Ford Boys! And that 2600 FOR THE ALUMINUM MOTOR CARS would be moore like it! Trying to bring budget into play! Most Steel block engines aren't 750-800 hp! And they aren't in big budget cars! Would it be good racing if Rodey brought his Superlate up at 2400 and won every night??? Or would it be better racing if cars realitivily with the same budge, or better funded teams with a little moore disdadvantage raced each other for the win every night??? And I would like to weigh Chris's steel block! I think you will find that it went to the milling machine and is not any heavier than a ford engine in aluminum would be! He won this year with an all aluminumm Ed Powell engine in the car! But won four times last year with his lightened steel block! I'll agree on the car counts! Just trying to see good even racing happening there from the beginning! Good Luck to all in all divisions! [/quote]

[Express Man]

[quote name='dylchris' date='Nov 21 2012, 01:52 AM' post='355043']
The same teams that can spend the money on the Aluminum can spend it on the steel engine as well, and you may be surprised how many 700 -750 some

I think the SB2 that Chris built is like about a 750hp 430! No one said there is a horsepower advantage with an Aluminum engine! And why would anyone spend the big money and not get an aluminum block?? Twice as easy to resell when your done! I think you will find most of the steel block engines out there racing are 358spec....358 steel block Bandit....or 604 crate! There are very few open steel blocks left! because ...quite honestly...why wouldn't you want aluminum???? If the steel were they way to go....all the big boys would be using them! And most of the guys with open steel motors are Budget guys trying to save a buck! That mostley can't compete with the better funded teams! I'll stiil stand on my thoughts! Aluminum motor cars should have to be 2600! I don't think there are any open motor steel blocks left except for the northern part of this state!

[dylchris]

Most every Steel block in this AREA are open steel blocks and if you look at Hummingbirds weekly car count; it is nearly a full field every night, the number of spec or 358 engines is very low. At Marion Center, I know of at least 8 of their steel blocks that are built off of the 400 platform as well, so unless you consider us northern, the Central part of the state is open steel blocks as well. There is no advantage to the aluminum versus steel it is strictly the composition of the medal. Secondly horsepower will NOT win many races at these small bull rings; driver and set-up will win the most races, these are track positon tracks and it takes an exceptional run to win. Ask Chris or any other notable engine builder if they can make the same power out of an iron block; I guarantee the answer is yes if the person wants to spend the same money. Re-marketing is area specific; there are many aluminum engines selling very cheap in the western Ill. area becasue local tracks switched. The greatest benefit to the aluminum block is unless yourip itin half, you never destroy them. The advantagfe to the steel block is in power and it is more consistant in holding heat in the engine. Bottom line if Greg or Jared wish to race at AMP; or any other person wishing to steal every show, they will need their A game and it will driver set-up that wins not motor. IMO. I think the SB2 that Chris built is like about a 750hp 430! No one said there is a horsepower advantage with an Aluminum engine! And why would anyone spend the big money and not get an aluminum block?? Twice as easy to resell when your done! I think you will find most of the steel block engines out there racing are 358spec....358 steel block Bandit....or 604 crate! There are very few open steel blocks left! because ...quite honestly...why wouldn't you want aluminum???? If the steel were they way to go....all the big boys would be using them! And most of the guys with open steel motors are Budget guys trying to save a buck! That mostley can't compete with the better funded teams! I'll stiil stand on my thoughts! Aluminum motor cars should have to be 2600! I don't think there are any open motor steel blocks left except for the northern part of this state! [/quote]

[Dingo]

Realistically, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks on here.... its all moot. Everyone had their chance to go and voice their opinion. What is, is. Those that want to run with Jeffs concept will and those that dont wont. There will be racing on Saturday nights in Clearfield for those that run with it. Car counts are entirely up to those that want to race there. 2013 race season is getting closer everyday and I for one am looking forward to racing at A.M.P. Dingo

[T-440]

I like what I have seen so far in regards to the rules for the Semi Late division, and I'm anxious to see the completed rules. I think this class will see a lot of growth, especially with a good payout. Limit the cost to compete, not limit the reward. Really looking forward to next spring!!!

[race ace]

[quote name='Chuck Stevens' date='Nov 21 2012, 12:45 AM' post='355030']
He is correct about the payout and it was given out for all divisions at the meeting.We wish more people could have attended but it is what it is.Jeff believes the teams that came where very respectful and were very easy to work with.There were only two crate teams there and did not seem like the crate teams were interested in racing there.I think Jeff has in mind to run them in some specials.
[/quote... chuck will you please let us all know when the website is up ?

[Warrior]

I think the SB2 that Chris built is like about a 750hp 430! No one said there is a horsepower advantage with an Aluminum engine! And why would anyone spend the big money and not get an aluminum block?? Twice as easy to resell when your done! I think you will find most of the steel block engines out there racing are 358spec....358 steel block Bandit....or 604 crate! There are very few open steel blocks left! because ...quite honestly...why wouldn't you want aluminum???? If the steel were they way to go....all the big boys would be using them! And most of the guys with open steel motors are Budget guys trying to save a buck! That mostley can't compete with the better funded teams! I'll stiil stand on my thoughts! Aluminum motor cars should have to be 2600! I don't think there are any open motor steel blocks left except for the northern part of this state!

Stay at dog hollow with your crate drivers (aka wanna be real latemodel drivers) Steel blocks arent low bugdet you idiot, i have seen many steel blocks beat so called good super lates, not only on small tracks but also on heavy tacky big tracks, if you have the power it doesnt matter steel or aluminum. so sit in the stands and drink your beer and cheer for your wanna be latemodel drivers (spec and crate drivers)

[D1RT]

Stay at dog hollow with your crate drivers (aka wanna be real latemodel drivers) Steel blocks arent low bugdet you idiot, i have seen many steel blocks beat so called good super lates, not only on small tracks but also on heavy tacky big tracks, if you have the power it doesnt matter steel or aluminum. so sit in the stands and drink your beer and cheer for your wanna be latemodel drivers (spec and crate drivers)

Don't know who you're talking about because Express Man has been running super lates for many years.......

[Warrior]

Don't know who you're talking about because Express Man has been running super lates for many years.......

so why does he want his car to weigh 2600? that is just stupid! so apperently over the years he has been racing he hasnt learned much hahahahahahahahahaha