6 replies to this topic

[dirtstudent2]

It's winter no racing left around here until indoors starts and here's something to have some fun with over the winter. I hope it will make your wait for next season even tougher. Because you'll now be anxious to get to a track to watch not only the racing, but how rear tires are interacting with the track. I hope after reading this you like I, will no longer be able to just park in one spot to watch the racing, but will be going back and forth between each end of the track to get a better look at how tires are working. Sure you probably already can see a loose, pushing, tight or bound, and drifting out; but now you'll start looking at why. In the past on here I've tried to explain how tires on a staggered solid axle needs to be used to efficiently take what is being raced into the apex, while slowing down. Yes I realize there are different techniques to entering a corner. The point I previously made here is that to be able to accelerate some place on the track the racer must slow down and the usual place it's done is somewhere between the end of the straight to the apex. I've already written on here about the most efficient way to use the tires on a staggered solid axle while slowing down. What follows is ignoring the transition from slowing down to accelerating and going on to the acceleration phase of LTO (left turn only) racing using a staggered solid axle. Before I go on I've been studying how a LTO racer works for a lot of years now. I've not been at it as long as most. I'm not schooled in it as many are. I realize I have a lot to learn. I know some of what I think is correct, is not. But the other side of the coin is there is no other place to go to learn about how LTO's with a staggered solid axle work, except to my own thoughts and to talk to others involved with LTO racing. It's because books and the study that has been done over the years do not deal with LTO staggered solid axle racing. Many years back now the son of a famous Sprint Car chassis maker explained to me that we don't race 'Real Race Cars' (cars which turn both left and right), we race 'Left Turn Only' cars. There is not only a big difference between 'Real Race Cars' and 'Left Turn Only' cars, they are entirely different in how they work. Enough ground work. On to how a LTO racer with staggered tires connected via a solid axle needs to be used, to efficiently interact with the track from the apex out. Idea One: When accelerating rear tires wind up until they start slipping or they wind up and don't slip. The moment just before a tire starts to slip, the tire is at its maximum potential for acceleration. But acceleration is relative to how fast your going and a dirt LTO's tires are in reality mostly always in a state of slip. A lot of acceleration from a dead stop can be important and a little bit of acceleration running at 40mph can be important. The first thing which comes to the mind of every 'Real Race Car' racer is if the two rear tires on the back which are connected via solid axle are of different sizes, then on the straight because they are different they must be scrubbing off speed. I'm going to throw out and get rid of that main wrong idea right now so I can go on, it's just a flat out a wrong, false and incorrect notion. If a rear tire is accelerating it is not scrubbing off speed. It can be using up more hp then necessary accelerating but it is not scrubbing off speed. Understanding “If a rear tire is accelerating it is not scrubbing off speed” is so important, if you can't comprehend it you will never be able to understand how a 'staggered solid axle' works. I have more I want to post because this is a local board, I am local and there are some kind local racers I have talked to about my theories and I hope it will help continue an exchange of ideas with them. But I'm also leery of this board even though it is 'our' local racing board like it or not. And I'm waiting to post more until I see how this is received. So... guess I'll just have to wait and see.

[fasttmaxx]

It's winter no racing left around here until indoors starts and here's something to have some fun with over the winter. I hope it will make your wait for next season even tougher. Because you'll now be anxious to get to a track to watch not only the racing, but how rear tires are interacting with the track. I hope after reading this you like I, will no longer be able to just park in one spot to watch the racing, but will be going back and forth between each end of the track to get a better look at how tires are working. Sure you probably already can see a loose, pushing, tight or bound, and drifting out; but now you'll start looking at why.

In the past on here I've tried to explain how tires on a staggered solid axle needs to be used to efficiently take what is being raced into the apex, while slowing down. Yes I realize there are different techniques to entering a corner. The point I previously made here is that to be able to accelerate some place on the track the racer must slow down and the usual place it's done is somewhere between the end of the straight to the apex. I've already written on here about the most efficient way to use the tires on a staggered solid axle while slowing down. What follows is ignoring the transition from slowing down to accelerating and going on to the acceleration phase of LTO (left turn only) racing using a staggered solid axle.

Before I go on I've been studying how a LTO racer works for a lot of years now. I've not been at it as long as most. I'm not schooled in it as many are. I realize I have a lot to learn. I know some of what I think is correct, is not. But the other side of the coin is there is no other place to go to learn about how LTO's with a staggered solid axle work, except to my own thoughts and to talk to others involved with LTO racing. It's because books and the study that has been done over the years do not deal with LTO staggered solid axle racing. Many years back now the son of a famous Sprint Car chassis maker explained to me that we don't race 'Real Race Cars' (cars which turn both left and right), we race 'Left Turn Only' cars. There is not only a big difference between 'Real Race Cars' and 'Left Turn Only' cars, they are entirely different in how they work.

Enough ground work. On to how a LTO racer with staggered tires connected via a solid axle needs to be used, to efficiently interact with the track from the apex out.

Idea One:

When accelerating rear tires wind up until they start slipping or they wind up and don't slip. The moment just before a tire starts to slip, the tire is at its maximum potential for acceleration. But acceleration is relative to how fast your going and a dirt LTO's tires are in reality mostly always in a state of slip. A lot of acceleration from a dead stop can be important and a little bit of acceleration running at 40mph can be important.

The first thing which comes to the mind of every 'Real Race Car' racer is if the two rear tires on the back which are connected via solid axle are of different sizes, then on the straight because they are different they must be scrubbing off speed. I'm going to throw out and get rid of that main wrong idea right now so I can go on, it's just a flat out a wrong, false and incorrect notion.

If a rear tire is accelerating it is not scrubbing off speed. It can be using up more hp then necessary accelerating but it is not scrubbing off speed. Understanding “If a rear tire is accelerating it is not scrubbing off speed” is so important, if you can't comprehend it you will never be able to understand how a 'staggered solid axle' works.

I have more I want to post because this is a local board, I am local and there are some kind local racers I have talked to about my theories and I hope it will help continue an exchange of ideas with them. But I'm also leery of this board even though it is 'our' local racing board like it or not. And I'm waiting to post more until I see how this is received. So... guess I'll just have to wait and see.

go to http://www.circletra...om/chassistech/ there are hundreds of articles there about turning left

[lube265]

The staggered solid axle has been around a long long time. My Dad made a few and bent a few up for some of the guys back in the day. Was not much science back then Heat it up find the right size of post or tree. To bend it around. Dirt raceing is such a gray area what works for one guy. Is just a mess fore the next guy. There is never just one way things work on dirt. Its what works for the driver owner and the team. Man i Wish Tim Temple was on this bord. Give tim a welder and some junk parts and he would make them work. The old school stuff is long gone for the most part.

Edited by lube265, 16 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[TheLegend]

Is that a new drink or something ???

[Retort]

Here is a web page that loves your type of questions. auto-ware.com/autoware-bin/tech.pl?#33472 Most of what goes on here are oddballs that don't have a vested interest in racing, they are merely self proclaimed experts.

[TheLegend]

Here is a web page that loves your type of questions. auto-ware.com/autoware-bin/tech.pl?#33472 Most of what goes on here are oddballs that don't have a vested interest in racing, they are merely self proclaimed experts.

AKA a bunch of toss offs who spout random bullshit attempting to sound smart... This dirt students ramblings are about as coherent as an alcoholic at 3 am ..

[dirtstudent2]

.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 30 November 2012 - 10:24 PM.