You know we all hate to see tracks close or not do so well, so what do you all think. Lets see how this goes and write a comment but please keep it positive. Thanks
How many classes should a track run?
Started by LarryTheCableGuy, Jun 19 2013 07:53 AM
26 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:53 AM
Wagner Racing #38
#2
Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:38 AM
never more than 3.
#3
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:09 AM
I would prefer 4 or 5 but whatever a track has to do to stay open is ok with me. I just wish certain tracks would understand that certain divisions should never be before the headline divisons. If you insist on running said division, run them last so people don't have to sit through them if they don't want to.
#4
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:27 AM
Dick Berggren once stated that "If any track runs more than 3 classes, they are doomed to failure." I'm not sure if this still applies with the economy, but I think he knows what he is talking about.
#5
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:33 AM
Dick Berggren once stated that "If any track runs more than 3 classes, they are doomed to failure." I'm not sure if this still applies with the economy, but I think he knows what he is talking about.
Dr Berggren was my boss for years when I wrote for Stock Car and Speedway Illustrated. He said many of the most successful tracks in the country only ran three classes, preferably two.
The trick is to announce your classes and stick with them so people can build cars and know they have a place to race.
Ramey Womer
womerracing.com
umipeformance.com
#6
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:35 AM
How is it ok to run a certain division last every night. I don't care what division it is. They have sponsors also. They have people who come to watch. Why should they have to sit through every division every night to be able to watch whatever driver they came to see. And some of your support divisions bring more people with them to watch than the headline divisions. You expect the support divisions to help fund the headline divisions but run last every night. Typical....Without support divisions there is no headline division. I think a well run track can run 5 divisions and still get done early enough. Especially without full fields. But 4 is probably best.I would prefer 4 or 5 but whatever a track has to do to stay open is ok with me. I just wish certain tracks would understand that certain divisions should never be before the headline divisons. If you insist on running said division, run them last so people don't have to sit through them if they don't want to.
Edited by bonez, 19 June 2013 - 09:36 AM.
#7
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:48 AM
5 would be ideal with full counts in each. Stateline runs 7 classes which is way too many but they start at 7 an have been finishing by 1am. They run open lates, unsanctioned crates, emods, limited lates, stocks, sportsman(wasted class that is special to only this track and usually packs the bathrooms and concession stands) and front wheel drive 4/6 cylinders. This track could drop the limited lates and sportsman and be a much more efficient show. But at the same rate stands are usually quite full and very decent counts in every division. One of the few tracks around that still field 20+ stocks a night. Crate counts and emods are quite good as well.How is it ok to run a certain division last every night. I don't care what division it is. They have sponsors also. They have people who come to watch. Why should they have to sit through every division every night to be able to watch whatever driver they came to see. And some of your support divisions bring more people with them to watch than the headline divisions. You expect the support divisions to help fund the headline divisions but run last every night. Typical....Without support divisions there is no headline division. I think a well run track can run 5 divisions and still get done early enough. Especially without full fields. But 4 is probably best.
Yup I'm a dick!!!
#8
Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:59 AM
4
Super Lates, Big Block Mods, 410 Sprints and Pure Stocks OR Crate Lates.
Who wants an autograph?
#9
Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:24 AM
Dick Berggren once stated that "If any track runs more than 3 classes, they are doomed to failure." I'm not sure if this still applies with the economy, but I think he knows what he is talking about.
You know Ed your right on!
I think the tracks feel that they need "X" amount of classes to pull in "X" amount of cars to bring in "X" amount of "$" But in all honesty they could probably cut back the amount of classes being ran start a little later ( like friday night tracks) and still end at an early enough time to get kids to bed.
Also I think these track that are close together (example: Sharon/Mercer) need to work together. Like the stock cars, just not enough of them to have full fields. Why couldn't they combine them together points and all and run Mercer one week and Sharon the next, and keep rotating them. Have a combined points fund that pays half decent. Just a thought.
Wagner Racing #38
#10
Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:25 AM
I don't have a problem with support divisions, but I know I along with many others groan when certain divisions run before the sprint cars, mods, late models, or whatever. If the stock cars run early in the night I have no problem with it. There's really only one division that should run last every night, and they know who they are. I'm not gonna say which because I don't feel like getting stabbbed by some crackhead. They probably can't read anyways, but I'm not gonna chance it.How is it ok to run a certain division last every night. I don't care what division it is. They have sponsors also. They have people who come to watch. Why should they have to sit through every division every night to be able to watch whatever driver they came to see. And some of your support divisions bring more people with them to watch than the headline divisions. You expect the support divisions to help fund the headline divisions but run last every night. Typical....Without support divisions there is no headline division. I think a well run track can run 5 divisions and still get done early enough. Especially without full fields. But 4 is probably best.
#11
Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:39 AM
Four is probably a good answer but not necessarily the only option.
A better question/poll would be, "How long should a show last?"
I am a firm believer that the show should be complete within 3-4 hours from the time the first green flag waves. Humans only have a certain span of time before they lose focus and concentration with entertainment. That's not my idea, it's a well documented fact. Certainly, there will be exceptions when the show might run longer. But, the norm should be 3-4 hours. Period! Younger fans start getting bored after 2-3 hours. And we wonder why they are attending other activities?
If a track can fit six classes in that 3-4 hour time span, then it will work out. No one will be complaining about the "premier" division running last!
Time limits on heats and features need to be enforced. Two spins and your out needs to be enforced. Stop running six laps before throwing the green at the start of a race. Stop wasting time getting cars lined up during yellow.
Keep the fans entertained and they will come back!
JMHO,
Joe
A better question/poll would be, "How long should a show last?"
I am a firm believer that the show should be complete within 3-4 hours from the time the first green flag waves. Humans only have a certain span of time before they lose focus and concentration with entertainment. That's not my idea, it's a well documented fact. Certainly, there will be exceptions when the show might run longer. But, the norm should be 3-4 hours. Period! Younger fans start getting bored after 2-3 hours. And we wonder why they are attending other activities?
If a track can fit six classes in that 3-4 hour time span, then it will work out. No one will be complaining about the "premier" division running last!
Time limits on heats and features need to be enforced. Two spins and your out needs to be enforced. Stop running six laps before throwing the green at the start of a race. Stop wasting time getting cars lined up during yellow.
Keep the fans entertained and they will come back!
JMHO,
Joe
Edited by riptide, 19 June 2013 - 10:42 AM.
#12
Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:40 AM
I think 4 classes is enough. A top class like late models, modifieds, or sprints. an affordable class like the front wheel drives, and two in between classes. something for everyone.
#13
Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:19 AM
Exactly Joe, That is why Dick said 3 at the time. Get them out by 10-10:30 when possible. The other thing is gate costs MUST, MUST, MUST come down! There was a pretty good crowd Sat. at Sharon with the Father's Day discount. Fan Appreciation Night is also real good at 8 bucks. Different specials each night to attract different groups of people, and good pricing on concessions so families can afford to eat there instead of somewhere else.Four is probably a good answer but not necessarily the only option.
A better question/poll would be, "How long should a show last?"
I am a firm believer that the show should be complete within 3-4 hours from the time the first green flag waves. Humans only have a certain span of time before they lose focus and concentration with entertainment. That's not my idea, it's a well documented fact. Certainly, there will be exceptions when the show might run longer. But, the norm should be 3-4 hours. Period! Younger fans start getting bored after 2-3 hours. And we wonder why they are attending other activities?
If a track can fit six classes in that 3-4 hour time span, then it will work out. No one will be complaining about the "premier" division running last!
Time limits on heats and features need to be enforced. Two spins and your out needs to be enforced. Stop running six laps before throwing the green at the start of a race. Stop wasting time getting cars lined up during yellow.
Keep the fans entertained and they will come back!
JMHO,
Joe
#14
Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:19 AM
I think port royal does it the right way. sprints run 1st, late models 2nd, stocks last. The tracks been very smooth, with little dust and the racing has been better than ever. Plus they are getting more late models than most tracks could dream of.
#15
Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:17 PM
I am a big believer in a max of 3 classes, an early start and an early finish. Yes, I realize things can and will happen to cause a late night every now and then but on a normal night we should be looking at a 10 to 10:30 finish time.
With a smaller number of classes, it really doesn't matter who runs first or last, it is usually early enough that the fans will hang around.
With less classes to pay, purses might be able to be increased with the potential of increased carcounts. Teams don't want to have to sit around through multiple support classes waiting their turn to race just like fans don't like waiting for "their class."
Now how does a track decide what divisions to run ? In my mind, that hinges on what the headline division is. You need to build your support classes to promote growth from 1 level to the next. For example, if your headline class is sprints, the support shouldn't be a stock car type class. Rarely do you see someone moving up from a stock car class to sprints or modifieds, their path is to late models.
And likewise for modifieds and late models.
Next, how do you pick that headline division ? Well, you have to figure out what the fans within your drawing area like and will support. Tracks will often find a very strong support for 1 or 2 types of cars in their area. It may mean not running the owner / promoter's favorite class.
The next thing is special events. It doesn't matter who or what class the special is set up for, THEY ARE THE HEADLINER ! There should not be 3 or 4 regular divisions to support them. A max of 2 support classes is it. If you drop a class this week because of a special event, put some extra in their purse next week as a thank you.
Finally, for the lack of a better term, novelty races. These seem to have fallen from grace in this area. With shorter shows we could bring back Hot Dog Races, Trailer Races, any number of goofy things that will have the people hanging around having a great time and still getting home at a reasonable hour.
Well, sorry I got off track a bit but those are my thoughts.
Why do I like racing ? Well the colors are bright and there is a lot of movement, so it holds my attention.
#16
Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:00 PM
3 hours max from drop of 1st green to drop of last checker
NEVER more than 3 classes with whatever budget/beginner/starter/hobby class running last everynight
oh wait, i forgot about the "carved in stone" rule that strictly prohibits any race track west of State College pa. to run a quick, entertaining, competitive program
oh well, dreaming again
#17
Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:56 PM
Two Divisions or maybe 3....Attica, Fremont, The Grove and Lincoln have done just fine running 2 or 3 classes a night for years..car counts not hurting either...Sharon from 1970 until 1978 ran 2 and then 3 divisions from 1979 until 1983 a night..PERFECT!!!
Run your headliner..your stepping stone to the headliner...and a novice division...
(Ie: 410 Sprints, 360/305 Sprints and Minis)
in the midwest the Emods or E-Modifieds take top bill...maybe they should be also around here since they draw more cars than any other division and pay them the top class purse and see how many more you will get... (run Emods, Economods and Minis )
#18
Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:56 PM
4 CLASSES MAX START AT 8 ON A FRI OR 730 ON SAT B DONE BY 11 3 1/2 SHOW IS MAX KIDS N YES MOST ADULTS GET BORED N TIRED AFTER THAT, 2 HEADLINE CLASSES TO SUPORT CLASSES ONE BEING PURE STOCK CARS IMCA TYPE RULE 10 BUX MAX AT FRONT GATE 20 BUX PITS NO HIDDEN BS FEES FOR PITS, CHEAP N FAST MOVING CONCESIONS, OH MOST IMPORTANT CLEAN N BIG BATHROOMS NOT PORTTA SHITTER ,EVERY TRACK SHOULD HAVE A 2BUCK PROGRAM TO LET NEW FANS KNOW WHO THE DRIVERS R ,WORKING PA SYSTEMS EVERYWHERE ,OK JMO ..BIG JOHN
#19
Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:58 PM
"Finally, for the lack of a better term, novelty races. These seem to have fallen from grace in this area. With shorter shows we could bring back Hot Dog Races, Trailer Races, any number of goofy things that will have the people hanging around having a great time and still getting home at a reasonable hour."...
bring back Kevin Ruic and Terry Adams!!! this works on asphalt but hardly on dirt...spectator drags, kids gold rush, bike races, bring em all back!!!!
#20
Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:45 PM
I think each track needs their headline division rather its 410 Sprints, Super Late Models, Big Block Mods, or even E-Mods. Then the "stepping stone" class for your headliner. If your headliners 410s then your stepping stone class is 305s, if its super lates then its crate lates, if its big blocks then its 358s, crate mods, or e-mods, if its e-mods then its the econo mods. Then a stock car class. Then a scaled down division to attract the kids attention, like micro sprints or mod-lites. Then bring the 4-cylinders in at the end of the night for a feature only.
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