27 replies to this topic

[Racer31]

Here are the weekly averages so far in 2013 for car counts by class: Non Wing: 34 Modified: 29 Mini Sprint: 23 Trucks: 19 Compacts: 10 360 Sprints: 37 (two visits) 410 Winged Sprints: 45 (one visit) Good counts so far in 2013. Hopefully the weather will cooperate so we can boost the fan counts up also. We hope to have a nice turnout this weekend with the Indian Lake Outfitters Fan Appreciation and Meet The Drivers night. We will be giving away bikes, skates, pogo sticks, ride on toys, t-shirts and other misc. items. We hope to see you there.

[Dirtracer48]

Well done! I think the truck count would go up if you dropped the compacts. It doesn't seem financially worth it to most.

[Racer31]

As much as we would like to take credit for car counts we can't. That is all the drivers and them choosing to race at WRP. We can only do what we feel is best and hope the majority of the drivers agree and pick us for their weekend racing plans. Thanks for the support Tim.

[aswisher7]

So what about having more 360 races in the future? Seems you get a fanbase from lima when they come to waynesfield, and the car counts are outstanding. Agree with Tim, do away with the compacts and your counts will go back up in trucks. There has been a lot of trucks this year, they just havent been able to make it out weekly.

[Racer31]

So what about having more 360 races in the future? Seems you get a fanbase from lima when they come to waynesfield, and the car counts are outstanding.
Agree with Tim, do away with the compacts and your counts will go back up in trucks. There has been a lot of trucks this year, they just havent been able to make it out weekly.

Stay tuned on the "adding 360 races" comment. As for the "taking the compacts away", we never decide that until after banquet time. The class has been really consistent with a car count between 10-13 which most classes that would be doom and gloom. However, since the compact class about as affordable as you get it's hard to remove them. I am a little concerned though that the class just hasn't grown in the last few years....not only our track but any track. When this class first came out there were tons of them at all tracks.

As for the trucks, it's the only class that has dropped in numbers this season but nothing major at all or nothing to worry about. The truck class will be a class that will always stay as long as they drivers support it. Do we need to look at taming them down a little????? That has been a debate for the last several years. The class was intended to be a close to stock class. If you tone them down...you lose trucks.......if you open them up.....you lose trucks. Right now there are more trucks running mid to front pack than there have been in many years.

Do ya like more stock or more open in this class?

[double checkered]

Leave the trucks alone...... Nobody is running away with it anymore. Nothing better than 6-8 trucks battling for lead. The ones out front are the ones that have been in the class since day 1. Let the rules alone for a few years and let everyone adapt to one set. Changing them every year will only frustrate people to the point of leaving. Only the drivers can weigh in on the cost issue, but I think its still an affordable entry level class. The main reason it was created in the first place. Some changes have been made from strictly stock to increase durability and performance for the fans. If you open them up, I feel you will go back to a few select trucks winning everything and lots leaving because they can't afford to keep up. I know the speeds aren't as fast as some fans would hope...... But the actual competition is second to none! I am amazed at how close they race lap after lap with very little contact. My hats off to all the truckers! Jeremy

[KO_23]

As a driver in the truck class I say leave the rules alone for a little while see if this keeps things close. Hopefully next season I will be one of those consistent top 10 trucks

[sammie]

my only thing is i hate the tail pipe rule it took the sound away and our power oh well i can deal with that but when you say we have to have a full floor and firewall and theirs trucks running up front with out if we are allowed to tunnel that would be great

[kartracer229]

my only thing is i hate the tail pipe rule it took the sound away and our power oh well i can deal with that but when you say we have to have a full floor and firewall and theirs trucks running up front with out if we are allowed to tunnel that would be great

I'd think most competitors would be pissed about the Crower rods. I'd not complain.....

[jgilley]

According to the " POSTED RULES " for WRP the engine is supposed to be stock as well as the rods . Crower rods and Esslinger heads were NOT stock last time I check . And there is no mention what so ever about Compression. Where in the rules does it state what the compression is to be ? Is anyone able to tell me or who ever might ask " the last time the top 5 trucks had a compression check done to insure they are within what ever the compression average is to be for all 4 cylinders. Personally , I believe if the little things like that were check and people MADE to run STOCK heads and STOCK rods and truly stock bodies , not alum. put in a metal break in a shop to be made to look stock , and stock floor pans and BOTH firewalls truly stock then this would truly be the " ENTRY LEVEL " CLASS it is stated to be . I spoke with a man in Celina that has 2 WRP trucks for sale . Told me he had to have $8,000 for them . And at that he was taking a loss as the one he built from the ground up he had $8,000. in it . If that amounts to entry level racing I'll kiss his butt on Main Street in Celina and give him $10.00 for every person he brings to watch. I get so sick and tired of hearing entry level class and then find out VERY FEW IF ANY are running a TRUE STOCK ENGINE OR TRUCK . If you want to run open class 4 cyl. truck call it that , but get off this Entry Level bull I have been hearing for the last 2 plus years. 5) ENGINE/DRIVETRAIN FOUR CYLINDER ONLY a) Must be stock. No engine setback. Stock ignition only.No dual point distributors, no magnetos. c) Headers permitted. d) Electric fuel pumps are permitted. Must have a manual shut off within driver’s reach. e) Stock carburetor –350 cfm or less. Choke horn must be unaltered. f) No racing heads. g) Must be gasoline only. No alcohol permitted. No fuel additives. h) Cams-No cutting spring pockets –stock valve train. i) Clean up pockets as long as they are done by hand. Gaskets must match. j) Flat top pistons. k) Stock Valves. l) Ford –Max 100,000thcut on head. m) Adjustable lifters okay. n) No boat motors. (Iron Duke intake and exhaust on same side) o) Single overhead cam except Nissan & Toyota. This means no Eco-Tech p) Intake must match gasket. q) No titanium. r) No strokers. s) Bore 60,000thover max. t) Stock fuel injection. u) All exhaust must exit under the truck. No Exhaust out the side of the truck. v) The last 24”of the exhaust must be maximum of 1 7/8 ID unaltered exhaust pipe. No Holes, No Rust through of any kind. Will be checked with a go/no-go gauge. w) All drivetrain must be of stock style and utilize all stock style components. No Berts, Powerglides or any direct drive style transmissions.

Edited by jgilley, 13 September 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[long-26]

According to the " POSTED RULES " for WRP the engine is supposed to be stock as well as the rods . Crower rods and Esslinger heads were NOT stock last time I check . And there is no mention what so ever about Compression. Where in the rules does it state what the compression is to be ? Is anyone able to tell me or who ever might ask " the last time the top 5 trucks had a compression check done to insure they are within what ever the compression average is to be for all 4 cylinders. Personally , I believe if the little things like that were check and people MADE to run STOCK heads and STOCK rods and truly stock bodies , not alum. put in a metal break in a shop to be made to look stock , and stock floor pans and BOTH firewalls truly stock then this would truly be the " ENTRY LEVEL " CLASS it is stated to be . I spoke with a man in Celina that has 2 WRP trucks for sale . Told me he had to have $8,000 for them . And at that he was taking a loss as the one he built from the ground up he had $8,000. in it . If that amounts to entry level racing I'll kiss his butt on Main Street in Celina and give him $10.00 for every person he brings to watch. I get so sick and tired of hearing entry level class and then find out VERY FEW IF ANY are running a TRUE STOCK ENGINE OR TRUCK . If you want to run open class 4 cyl. truck call it that , but get off this Entry Level bull I have been hearing for the last 2 plus years.
5) ENGINE/DRIVETRAIN
FOUR CYLINDER ONLY
a) Must be stock. No engine setback.
Stock ignition only.No dual point distributors, no magnetos.
c) Headers permitted.
d) Electric fuel pumps are permitted. Must have a manual shut off within driver’s reach.
e) Stock carburetor –350 cfm or less. Choke horn must be unaltered.
f) No racing heads.
g) Must be gasoline only. No alcohol permitted. No fuel additives.
h) Cams-No cutting spring pockets –stock valve train.
i) Clean up pockets as long as they are done by hand. Gaskets must match.
j) Flat top pistons.
k) Stock Valves.
l) Ford –Max 100,000thcut on head.
m) Adjustable lifters okay.
n) No boat motors. (Iron Duke intake and exhaust on same side)
o) Single overhead cam except Nissan & Toyota. This means no Eco-Tech
p) Intake must match gasket.
q) No titanium.
r) No strokers.
s) Bore 60,000thover max.
t) Stock fuel injection.
u) All exhaust must exit under the truck. No Exhaust out the side of the truck.
v) The last 24”of the exhaust must be maximum of 1 7/8 ID unaltered exhaust pipe. No Holes, No Rust through
of any kind. Will be checked with a go/no-go gauge.
w) All drivetrain must be of stock style and utilize all stock style components. No Berts, Powerglides or any
direct drive style transmissions.

[long-26]

The truck class is an awesome little class that puts on great racing. I hope they tech the trucks on a regular basis or it will get way out of control Kudos to lima for at least teching the cars now for not just performance related rules but also checking saftey issues. Teching each class is a must at every track in every division to maintain a level playing field and keeping new teams/drivers safe.

[double checkered]

I spoke with a man in Celina that has 2 WRP trucks for sale . Told me he had to have $8,000 for them . And at that he was taking a loss as the one he built from the ground up he had $8,000. in it . If that amounts to entry level racing I'll kiss his butt I'm curious as to what your price tag for entry level is? What all did this person do from the ground up to total over 8 grand? Is there receipts to verify these amounts? Two trucks for 8 grand sorta sounds like a deal to me. Last time I checked the price of an entry level stock car to race in this area was Nowhere near that price. I understand racing is an expensive activity on all forms. About the stock rods, I don't see anywhere that it says they have to be stock. I think item a in the rules refers to location. If the rule was stock engine, that would be the only rule. Period. There are additional lines to allow for performance and added longevity over stock components. Jeremy

[kartracer229]

I can tell you that 8k is a realistic number. Heres how. S-10's are hard to come by, and if you do, the truck itself isnt cheap. These prices are all things Ive researched as Im building mine. Donor Truck-800-1000 Cage-800-1000 (Was quoted this from a chassis builder yesterday) So there your already at 2k. Motor-1000+ I can tell you right now, finding a boneyard motor, getting machine work done, and rebuilding it (Im talking hone the cylinder, deck the block on a 186k mile motor) isnt going to be cheap. Now buy a rebuild kit and pay someone to put it together (not everyones a mechanic or feels like building a grenade). So to be conservative lets say your at 3500. Oh now you need a transmission, 200 and a clutch, 150 So now your at 3850. Fuel cell, fuel pumps, shocks, shock mounts, wheels, tires, rear gears, good safety equipment (full containment seat, new belts). Hell you can be looking at a grand in a seat and belts if you bought really nice stuff. Instruments, those arent free. Steering quickners arent free. Body's, graphics. Spare parts. I could see 6-8k rather quickly. Sorry, but racing isnt cheap, and theres no reason to half ass a vehicle together to skimp on safety. Sure you can buy these parts used at swap meets all over, but if you were to build a truck from 100% the ground up, its not cheap. Its not because of the class getting out of hand, even if you do take the motor cost out of it, your still looking at 5-6 if you do it all brand new. Lets be honest, the next "step" up the totem pole in local dirt racing is 3-4 times the initial cost of building a new truck.

[jgilley]

I can tell you that 8k is a realistic number. Heres how. S-10's are hard to come by, and if you do, the truck itself isnt cheap. These prices are all things Ive researched as Im building mine. Donor Truck-800-1000... Answer.. If you are paying $800-$1000 it is NOT a Donor truck. A donor truck is exactly that a donation to your team .. maybe for sponsorship Cage-800-1000 (Was quoted this from a chassis builder yesterday) .. So there your already at 2k. Answer.. Can order roll cages all day from various racing supply companies for way less than $800 motor-1000+ I can tell you right now, finding a boneyard motor, getting machine work done, and rebuilding it (Im talking hone the cylinder, deck the block on a 186k mile motor) isnt going to be cheap. Now buy a rebuild kit and pay someone to put it together (not everyones a mechanic or feels like building a grenade). Answer.. Can get head cut for less than $150 . And Jeremy.... Stock motor mean STOCK RODS and STOCK HEAD . Can pick up boneyard 2300 and 2500 motors all day for $200-$250 dollars. If you rebuild it stock might cost $800.-$1000. Seat , tach ,temp, and oil pressure and possibly fuel pressure gauges can be bought for less than $500 if you don't have to be flashy and have the best . Tires .. Hoosier E-mod tires any compound are $125.00 each brand new from Hoosier in Indianapolis ,so your talking $1,000 for 2 sets . As far as springs and shocks .. Stock suspension is stock springs and shocks . Max cost on everything I listed above is $3700. Thats ground up paying for what you have to and doing the bulk of it yourself. As far as paint and bodywork ... do it yourself... 25 plus years ago I had no idea how to ...but after building my first car I learned how over time. Paint ..$25.00 a Gallon at TSC . Bondo $30.00 a gallon at most at Auto Zone or ACE and they will give you stir paddles and spreaders . And I am still way under $8,000. PAYING someone ( chassis man , engine man , body man ) to build your car or truck WILL cost you . BUT people this Isn't NASCAR , or Hooters Cup , or ARCA , This is LOCAL Saturday night grass roots dirt racing . Spending $8,000 or even $6,000 to go out on 16 Saturday nights and win ( if you win every race ) $3200. isn't realistic , or logical thinking. Now I will say make the rules the way you want them. Put them down on paper and hand every driver a copy. Have them sign a reciept for those rules and put in your records. so when they argue you can say " You signed for the rules and have a copy .. I have your reciept right here to prove it " But if they are for a stock TECH THE CARS AND TRUCKS in front of the drivers to make SURE they are stock. and after evry race at least run a compression sheck on top 5 to assure they are still stock. If they are open class rules set your parameters and STAY with them ..NO exceptions . Run by the rules or don't run. If you worry about making drivers mad your going to worry 24/7/365 . If you want to race .... race by the rules given or go somewhere that have rules you want. If you lose a few thats ok , they will come back when they realize how far they have to drag their car/truck everyweek to race by " their " rules and not the tracks rules . Track owner and promoter set the rules ... NOT the drivers or flagmen , Concession stand workers or push drivers . Make the rules what you want but at least if your going to have an entry level division , use entry level STOCK everything . Don't run open class or semi open class that can run very high in cost and ty to call it entry level. The only entry level clas I have seen at WRP is the FWD cars .

[double checkered]

Jessie. I'm still trying to figure out what your trying to say. Are you upset that somebody else paid 8 grand to build a truck? What should it matter? There isn't a salary cap on racing. I TOTALLY agree, the trucks are supposed to be an "affordable" class. You just described how you personally can build a truck from "the ground up" for significantly less. If you pay a professional, or buy higher quality parts, that is that person's choice. I've looked over those rules several times and can see how they can be interpreted differently. Like I said, if you feel it should be all stock, the ONLY rule should read. "Engine must be completely stock". I have nothing invested in any truck that races at WRP. I'm am just stating my personal view point on the topic. To say that its only up to two persons to write the rules, I feel you are incorrect. (Again only my opinion). I see all rules being a compromise between officials, racers, and even fans. You are trying to bring up a point to adjust the rules. You are a driver I assume? By what you stated, the track owner and promoter shouldn't pay any attention to what you have to say. Please understand, I'm sorta on your side of keeping the class an entry level. I think we just view "affordable" differently. Jeremy

[jgilley]

Jeremy what I am trying to say is there is little enforcement of the rules . It is clearly stated the there is to be NO titanium. yet Crower rods are allowed and they are made from titanium. why have rules on the books if they are not going to be enforced . The rules are written in a way that makes it very improbable for a driver to protest . What is the cost for just a plain old teardown protest ? How many drivers bring $2500.00 to the track for a claim plus their truck ? I have ran WPR a few times yes , not this year due to health issues that have since been taken care of . When I did run I saw a couple of trucks with " slab " beds and one truck that had no more than an 8" high bed . several trucks that has Alum. tunnels instead of stock floor pans and firewalls . And engines... WOW I was told by a few that NO ONE will ever be allowed to even look at their engines . Why ? Something to hide ? Like I said Jeremy ... set the rules how you feel they need to be set . But ENFORCE what you set . And Kartracer229 .... Why do you have to pay for graphics... Much easier to paint them on .. Much easier to repair when they get torn up and much leas expensive to repair . Does ANYONE know how to do things the " OLD SCHOOL " way and save money for things you really need ? Good Painters tape and a good exacto knife make easy lettering and Numbering . To me Building a car or truck means actually building , painting and lettering . if someone builds it for you you tend NOT to respect it or appreciate it as much and spend way too much money. I guess that's why I say I can BUILD one a lot cheaper than what you all think one can be built for ..

Edited by jgilley, 14 September 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[kartracer229]

Jesse, most of those roll cages are a "you weld it" deal. I have access to a 99 dollar harbor freight welder. Does it do the job in a hurry? Yes. Do I trust welding my whole cage on/together with it? Hell no. Again, people dont have the mechanical experience/know-how/or simply dont have the time to do it. We built a brand new stock car this year, Ron Miller did the welding, and frame-work and bent the body and decking. This car took us from about the last week of october until about a week before the Piqua Mall show to get done. Time, Money, several things equated into it, but Ive never been more proud to say we built something that is capable to run upfront. When I say "Donor Truck" I mean one such as, I have bent equipment on my truck, so and need several parts to finish it, so I will have to purchase a truck, to strip and use those parts on a race truck, and scrap the rest. If you need alot of parts, your better off buying a whole truck, than piece by piece at a junkyard. You can easily have 5-6k in rolling chassis, It does say "Racing shocks and springs ok". Shocks are anywhere from 69-1000 a piece brand new. New fuel cells arent cheap if you get a good one. If you have quality parts, you will spend decent money. The fwd division is far from "beginner". Anything you learn in setup is ass-backwards from any other type of race car. Teaches bad habits on driving, and half the crowd has a bad attitude. Why dont I want to paint it? Personally, I cant paint, and I dont want it to look like a 5th graders finger painting. I want to take pride in what I build, and not have it look like a rolling brownstain. But speaking of graphics, in the last two years, I have not spent over 80 dollars in graphics. I believe thats combined. Thats a million times easier to hit cut, print, success, than sand, bondo, sand, bondo again, sand, primer, sand, paint, sand, mask, paint, sand, mask, paint, sand, mask, paint, sand, clear-coat, and its a hell of alot less time. All in all, you have race trucks, if you step back and look, honestly, how far out of context are they? They are still slower than the compacts (after the pipe rule) and you can piece together a decent truck for a decent amount. You cant go to any other division for the same money and have good results, unless the sun is shining on a dogs you know what. Plain and simple you can talk about motors being illegal, but until you can make your truck as fast as possible in the corners, everyone who has one of these monster motors is just pissing in the wind.

[jgilley]

Roll cages you weld together are TOP price 299.99 ordered from Jegs . If someone is going to Charge you 600 to 700 to weld it they are truly ripping you off . I have access to a wire welder bought at ACE for less than 300.00. And wire while expensive will last a very long time . Like I said .... There is a HUGE difference between building a truck and having one built . And if you are using STOCK body panels as the rules state , there is no need to any fabrication of body parts or panels . Very simple .. Take body apart... Fenders off , Cab off frame, bed off ... Build cage on frame .... Paint cage and frame , put cab back on , put bed and fenders on , Paint body, Tape off and letter, number . Is it easy ? No . Does it take time ? Yes . Takes patience and the ability to LISTEN to others and the DESIRE to do it your self and save a bunch of money. Took me a long time to learn how to put a decent paint and lettering job on a car , and took me longer to learn to weld the RIGHT way , but it beats paying 3 times the money for a money loosing hobby LOL

Edited by jgilley, 16 September 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[stocker]

Roll cages you weld together are TOP price 299.99 ordered from Jegs . If someone is going to Charge you 600 to 700 to weld it they are truly ripping you off . I have access to a wire welder bought at ACE for less than 300.00. And wire while expensive will last a very long time, jgilley I will disagree on someone ripping off people for doing a professional job, I have been a welder for 30 years and owning a fabrication company. My hourly rate is 45.00 per hour and to put a cage in a truck the right way will take you 8 hours easy and that's just labor. I will trust my 1,600.00 dollar welders way before I weld with a three hundred dollar welder. Them welders don't weld worth a crap, no penetration at all. quick fix yes for the safety of others NO. That kit does not include 3 door bars, stub bars in between and 2 bars in passenger door with stub bars, and the extra halo bar added to help protect the drivers head. They come with with bars to add cross X as which drag racing requires for door bars. If I was going to put a cage in a truck new I would also quote 800 to 1,000 cause that also comes with boxing in all chassis ares that the cage will be mounted to. I don't care what people say even if I was to build a race truck here at my shop I still would be looking at over 6,000 to build it, And I have part dealerships to buy parts from with no mark-up. People the days of 1,200.00 race trucks are gone, get over it. Put the word race in front of anything and it spells money. JMO