18 replies to this topic

[deathpunch]

is it just me or did the fwd four cylinders class get way outta control.... i went to amp this weekend and theres not a "stock car" in the top 5...what happened to having rules and a low budget class... just wondering

[racer777]

is it just me or did the fwd four cylinders class get way outta control.... i went to amp this weekend and theres not a "stock car" in the top 5...what happened to having rules and a low budget class... just wondering

Exactly. That's why there was 100 every night when they started the class. No teching and no claim limits and this is what you get. All classes are that way. You have to have an unlimited budget to compete in unrestricted classes. Its the demise of our sport. Its sad. Promoters would rather not have an hassles .

[race ace]

there was a rules meeting where were you guys at to vote on them ? all classes are out of hand and will continue to get worse until a whole bunch of guys show up at these meeting and grow a pair big enough to straighten these classes out hell you can't tell the street stocks apart from the latemodels anymore .street stock should be just that but the guys who want to pretend they have a late model barked louder at the meeting and there were more of them that raised their hand to vote on the rules packages and being said that this is America the and majority rules . same goes for every class .

[racer777]

there was a rules meeting where were you guys at to vote on them ? all classes are out of hand and will continue to get worse until a whole bunch of guys show up at these meeting and grow a pair big enough to straighten these classes out hell you can't tell the street stocks apart from the latemodels anymore .street stock should be just that but the guys who want to pretend they have a late model barked louder at the meeting and there were more of them that raised their hand to vote on the rules packages and being said that this is America the and majority rules . same goes for every class .

Agreed. I mostly attend another track,but have been saying this for years.guys who wanna spend $7,000. + on motors need to buy a latemodel. That's why there's different tiers of classes.

[bigred81]

is it just me or did the fwd four cylinders class get way outta control.... i went to amp this weekend and theres not a "stock car" in the top 5...what happened to having rules and a low budget class... just wondering

what do you consider low budget to be for that class?

[deathpunch]

Rules meetings don't matter there is already a set of rules in place thrre just not enforced... I was really considering making another fwd but its pointless if there is no tech.. the ford probe I raced in 2005 at thunder mountain n central pa was a top three car at any local track with many wins and it was stock.. that same stock car would be lucky to get a top 10 now. ..u have neons running motors out of other cars.. super chips.. etc etc.. In 2005 clfd rained out so I went to dog hollow I finished 2nd and was disqualified for a cold air intake. . U think that would happen now? The fwd class pays what 150 $ ? I built a car on a 1500 $ budget anf won 10 races n a track championship.. these tracks need to grow a back bone n enforce there rule books

Edited by deathpunch, 03 September 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[bigred81]

Rules meetings don't matter there is already a set of rules in place thrre just not enforced... I was really considering making another fwd but its pointless if there is no tech.. the ford probe I raced in 2005 at thunder mountain n central pa was a top three car at any local track with many wins and it was stock.. that same stock car would be lucky to get a top 10 now. ..u have neons running motors out of other cars.. super chips.. etc etc..
In 2005 clfd rained out so I went to dog hollow I finished 2nd and was disqualified for a cold air intake. . U think that would happen now?
The fwd class pays what 150 $ ? I built a car on a 1500 $ budget anf won 10 races n a track championship.. these tracks need to grow a back bone n enforce there rule books

have you looked at the rule book for the 4 cyl. class? what rules can be enforced?

[race ace]

the problem is if you start throwing cars out at a new track then you have no cars ,so everyone turns their back and nothing gets done .

Edited by race ace, 03 September 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[bigred81]

well, just look at the factory specs of some of these cars. Acura is 200 hp Ecotech saturn is 170 hp Ecotech cavalier 150 hp Neon is 130 hp Probe is 110 hp

[jmmr]

I agree wholeheartedly with what is being said. The idea that if you throw guys out for enforcement the counts will fall is not really accurate though. You must start the year with stern enforcement of the rules-rules that were handed out Early in the off season. How many times have you seen guys make it through initial inspection at the beginning of the year w clear violations. It's biting off your nose to spite your face. Two choices- 1. Let it slide-piss off drivers who now can't afford or don't have knowledge to make certain changes-lose cars. 2.enforce rules-maybe Lose a few guys initially- long term you gain guys that will promote their division as a fun and affordable hobby. You will also get guys moving up to other divisions. Track needs to ask one question- If a guy follows the rules-does he have a chance to win? You wanna see a 4cyl. Class completely gone wrong-check out motordrome-you wanna win you will be into your car for 4000-6000 all said and done. 10 years ago you could spend under 2 grand and maybe not win much but definitely finish top five.Stan ruined that class upon arrival.

[racer777]

I agree wholeheartedly with what is being said. The idea that if you throw guys out for enforcement the counts will fall is not really accurate though. You must start the year with stern enforcement of the rules-rules that were handed out Early in the off season. How many times have you seen guys make it through initial inspection at the beginning of the year w clear violations. It's biting off your nose to spite your face. Two choices- 1. Let it slide-piss off drivers who now can't afford or don't have knowledge to make certain changes-lose cars. 2.enforce rules-maybe Lose a few guys initially- long term you gain guys that will promote their division as a fun and affordable hobby. You will also get guys moving up to other divisions. Track needs to ask one question- If a guy follows the rules-does he have a chance to win? You wanna see a 4cyl. Class completely gone wrong-.

Finally ! Someone that gets it !

[speedracer 7]

Its getting out of control. If you race minis anywhere you almost have to cheat to win. It almost forces guys to cheat. But the problem you have with teching everyone to make sure they are stock is when a guy runs a car that has 200 HP stock and another guy has a car that has 130 HP stock. The 130 HP guy can not compete no matter how good the setup or how good a driver he is. But there are WAY more cars that are affordable in the 130 HP range. So the guy with 130 HP cheats to compete. And it is starting to get bad in the enduros also. Guys are spending alot more money than what the class intended. There really is no perfect answer. Maybe if you put a horsepower limit for the class. But that is not perfect either.

[alky]

4 cyl stocks need a hp to weight rule. using 130 hp as a baseline,more hp more weight,less hp less weight.making a list would be pretty simple.if your car isn't on the list,present the info and get it on the list.simple

[speedracer 7]

what do you consider low budget to be for that class?

I originally spent less than $2,000 on my mini and it would be a top 5 car at any track that I would go to. With a win every once in a while. So I would say that or less. Obviously you spend money throughout the year but you should not have to spend any more than that to have a competitive car. But there are cars out there to buy that have a lot more horsepower than mine. And if you want to spend the money for them you can buy them. Usually a lot more than $2,000. But mine is a 93. The newer cars have more horsepower. They can be found. And completely legal to run according to almost every tracks rules. But once again will cost you more.

[racer777]

The old claimer rule is still the most effective way to keep money out of these lower tier classes,like its supposed to be.

[LM RACING]

This happens in every class.Grey areas are pushed to the max by half the racers. By the time a rule is made over half the class has upgraded to compete. Now the rule is changed to suit these teams who are winning cause if they dont they will go somewhere else. As this is repeated year after year you went from "street stocks" to "Sportsman latemodels". Now these grey area pushers complain that the cost is out of hand. In the end the racers that love this sport so much did it to themself.

[racer777]

This happens in every class.Grey areas are pushed to the max by half the racers. By the time a rule is made over half the class has upgraded to compete. Now the rule is changed to suit these teams who are winning cause if they dont they will go somewhere else. As this is repeated year after year you went from "street stocks" to "Sportsman latemodels". Now these grey area pushers complain that the cost is out of hand. In the end the racers that love this sport so much did it to themself.

Thats because tracks refuse to uphold the rules and let ppl slide here and there ... Stick to the rules. Not that hard to do.

[jmmr]

Erie seems to be having no problem w tech enforcement-yeah it's work on their part but it's the price u pay to promote a fair track. They dq cars every week. If it wasn't so expensive to drive/tow I'd be there for sure.

[speedracer 7]

Thats because tracks refuse to uphold the rules and let ppl slide here and there ... Stick to the rules. Not that hard to do.

That is great for the upper classes. But for the minis 2 drivers can follow the same exact rules but 1 can have 200 HP plus and another 140 HP. Same rules not even close in speed. You cant do a claim rule in minis. It just wont work.