65 replies to this topic

[714d]

If the car has solid arms and steer built in through geometry, half the cars in this state would be illegal. If he's gaining steer through a spring bar or 3link then I can see the complaint if that's not legal there. I'm not familiar with their rules specifically.

[babyjesusracing]

bottom line is  the suspention rules are not clear he is run spring loaded upper trailing arms on the rear that no one can find the rules say any aftermarket trailing arms but if no one can find them are they truely after market. the rules also say wheel base must match left to right but as someone stated earlier if you move the lower trailing arms up or down (witch is allowed) its not going to. so in my opinion these tracks all need to get together and have a clear set of suspention rules so there will be no arguement on what is legal and what is not. i will say when is the last time anyone has seen one guy win every race and be legal (there is something its just got to be found) Marion center says they hired a tech guy and all cars better be to the rules for next week (well i have heard this before and my guess will be there will be no tech the rest of the year)

[sdrcr]

What kind of STREET STOCK car comes with rear steer

[Drtracer27]

I am sorry if this ends up being a lengthy post but I guess you don't have to read it.  I am also in no way affiliated with the 28N team, I do know Nate and talk to him on occasion but am no part of his team.

 

Babyjesus you say that Nate was illegal Saturday night and the tech official told you that he was illegal but give him a week and it will be legal.  You have stated that Nate's dad is the tech man and you have never stated anything about anybody else be a tech official, others have established that Denny does not tech the street stocks, so are you saying that Denny (Nates dad) came to you and told you the car was illegal and what the infraction was?

 

I have heard statements from others that after the race the cars were pulled into the infield and Nate wasn't allowed to have photos taken until after he passed tech.  Once in the infield Rich (the track promoter) and Jeremy (the tech official for street stocks) went to Ray Hickock and Jeff Sweeney and said I am tired of getting phone calls about this car being illegal and asked them to come with them to tech the car and witness it.  They proceeded to measure the wheelbase that came out to be equal for both sides of the car in conflict of what you have stated here on a public forum!  They also measured the control arms on the rear of the car which was also found to be legal.  The stuck a magnet on the block and heads which both showed to be steel and legal.  They pulled the distributor cap off to check for traction control and low and behold there was none.  At some point in time they established his car legal and he was awarded the win.  If an official told you his car was illegal which official was it?  How many times this year has he been found illegal and allowed to continue racing as you have claimed?  What were the infractions?

 

Babyjesus you have a Pro-1 street stock chassis advertised for sale on the classifieds of this board.  Did you purchase this chassis new from Dave Kline Motorsports?  Do you have any photos of the chassis?  If you don't mind me asking who did you purchase this car from?  Have you ever been in contact with Dave Kline Motorsports to confirm that your car is indeed a Pro-1 car?  I have been told that the car you have for sale is not a Pro-1 chassis and was just curious if you were snookered when you purchased the car, whether you are trying to defraud someone else intentionally or if possibly the car is a Pro-1?  There haven't been many chassis come out of that shop so it's not hard to account for them all.

 

Nate raced at Lernerville last year and was doing pretty good for himself before he ran into problems, contrary to recent statements that he has never been to Lernerville.  He has also won I believe 2 Chilli bowl races at tracks other then MCS or DHS.  At Marion Center they redraw the top 6 from the heat races to establish the starting order for the feature, therefore if Nate hasn't had to start at the back of a feature it is because he has done well for himself in heat races.  Just 2 or 3 weeks ago in the makeup feature Nate started dead last and won.

 

If you go to the Dave Kline Motorsports Facebook page you can see several pictures of the car being built in several different stages of completion.  Looking at the pictures anyone can see that it is a stock Monte Carlo frame with the very rear clip of the car replaced with rectangular tubing to mount the fuel cell.  The car uses the stock control arm mounting points on the front and rear of the frame.  I am not quite sure how this makes his car a late model and that he needs to run the car with late models?  The frame that was used was the frame from the strictly stock car that Nate campaigned that was actually twisted.  Babyjesus also claimed earlier that this car is a house car and the Smith's don't have any money in it, that is absolutely false.  I know for a fact that Denny ordered the chassis and paid for it in addition to bringing the frame for the car.

 

The engine was built by Nate's father in their garage.  Helman's machine did the machine work to the engine and Denny did the rest.  I am sure that they used quality parts in the engine but I am also sure it did not cost near as much as some of the guys' engines that they compete against.  I have heard dollar amounts that guys have spent to have race engine shops build their motors and it is ridiculous.  If you ask Nate I am sure he will tell you that you have to have 800 horsepower in your motor to compete as he walks away smiling and laughing at you.

 

 Denny drives water truck for an oilfield company working long hours during the week and Nate has recently graduated high school and completed higher education before landing a pretty good job, unfortunately he is now laid off.  The claims of large amounts of money being dumped into the car just doesn't seem to tread water.  Up until this year they hauled to the races on an old rollback and over the winter Nate purchased a cheap used enclosed trailer that they haul with.  They used the money they had wisely and invested into the car.  There is a guy racing at Marion Center that pulls in with a big fancy truck and a brand new fancy spread axle trailer and he isn't even close to being a threat to win. 

 

I know Nate would love to travel to bigger races but a lot of them just don't make sense financially.  And if you live close to two tracks and plan to race there would you build your car to race competitively at those two tracks or would you build them to run 3 or 4 specials that you may lose money just travelling to?

 

There is a very good article by Kristin Swartzlander and anybody who subscribes to her blog will know why it is appropriate here.

Edited by Drtracer27, 14 July 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Drtracer27]

Skull, I disagree that he Nate is what is wrong with the class.  It think what is wrong with the class is that they have opened the rules up to allow just about anything.  It is awfully hard to be illegal in a street stock these days.  It wasn't all that long ago that you were required a hydraulic cam and stock exhaust manifolds in the street stock class.  Now it is pretty much open to anything as long as it is steel heads and block.  Even opening the rules up to allow non stock suspension components made the class more costly and harder to compete in.

[babyjesusracing]

I am sorry if this ends up being a lengthy post but I guess you don't have to read it.  I am also in no way affiliated with the 28N team, I do know Nate and talk to him on occasion but am no part of his team.

 

Babyjesus you say that Nate was illegal Saturday night and the tech official told you that he was illegal but give him a week and it will be legal.  You have stated that Nate's dad is the tech man and you have never stated anything about anybody else be a tech official, others have established that Denny does not tech the street stocks, so are you saying that Denny (Nates dad) came to you and told you the car was illegal and what the infraction was?

 

I have heard statements from others that after the race the cars were pulled into the infield and Nate wasn't allowed to have photos taken until after he passed tech.  Once in the infield Rich (the track promoter) and Jeremy (the tech official for street stocks) went to Ray Hickock and Jeff Sweeney and said I am tired of getting phone calls about this car being illegal and asked them to come with them to tech the car and witness it.  They proceeded to measure the wheelbase that came out to be equal for both sides of the car in conflict of what you have stated here on a public forum!  They also measured the control arms on the rear of the car which was also found to be legal.  The stuck a magnet on the block and heads which both showed to be steel and legal.  They pulled the distributor cap off to check for traction control and low and behold there was none.  At some point in time they established his car legal and he was awarded the win.  If an official told you his car was illegal which official was it?  How many times this year has he been found illegal and allowed to continue racing as you have claimed?  What were the infractions?

 

Babyjesus you have a Pro-1 street stock chassis advertised for sale on the classifieds of this board.  Did you purchase this chassis new from Dave Kline Motorsports?  Do you have any photos of the chassis?  If you don't mind me asking who did you purchase this car from?  Have you ever been in contact with Dave Kline Motorsports to confirm that your car is indeed a Pro-1 car?  I have been told that the car you have for sale is not a Pro-1 chassis and was just curious if you were snookered when you purchased the car, whether you are trying to defraud someone else intentionally or if possibly the car is a Pro-1?  There haven't been many chassis come out of that shop so it's not hard to account for them all.

 

Nate raced at Lernerville last year and was doing pretty good for himself before he ran into problems, contrary to recent statements that he has never been to Lernerville.  He has also won I believe 2 Chilli bowl races at tracks other then MCS or DHS.  At Marion Center they redraw the top 6 from the heat races to establish the starting order for the feature, therefore if Nate hasn't had to start at the back of a feature it is because he has done well for himself in heat races.  Just 2 or 3 weeks ago in the makeup feature Nate started dead last and won.

 

If you go to the Dave Kline Motorsports Facebook page you can see several pictures of the car being built in several different stages of completion.  Looking at the pictures anyone can see that it is a stock Monte Carlo frame with the very rear clip of the car replaced with rectangular tubing to mount the fuel cell.  The car uses the stock control arm mounting points on the front and rear of the frame.  I am not quite sure how this makes his car a late model and that he needs to run the car with late models?  The frame that was used was the frame from the strictly stock car that Nate campaigned that was actually twisted.  Babyjesus also claimed earlier that this car is a house car and the Smith's don't have any money in it, that is absolutely false.  I know for a fact that Denny ordered the chassis and paid for it in addition to bringing the frame for the car.

 

The engine was built by Nate's father in their garage.  Helman's machine did the machine work to the engine and Denny did the rest.  I am sure that they used quality parts in the engine but I am also sure it did not cost near as much as some of the guys' engines that they compete against.  I have heard dollar amounts that guys have spent to have race engine shops build their motors and it is ridiculous.  If you ask Nate I am sure he will tell you that you have to have 800 horsepower in your motor to compete as he walks away smiling and laughing at you.

 

 Denny drives water truck for an oilfield company working long hours during the week and Nate has recently graduated high school and completed higher education before landing a pretty good job, unfortunately he is now laid off.  The claims of large amounts of money being dumped into the car just doesn't seem to tread water.  Up until this year they hauled to the races on an old rollback and over the winter Nate purchased a cheap used enclosed trailer that they haul with.  They used the money they had wisely and invested into the car.  There is a guy racing at Marion Center that pulls in with a big fancy truck and a brand new fancy spread axle trailer and he isn't even close to being a threat to win. 

 

I know Nate would love to travel to bigger races but a lot of them just don't make sense financially.  And if you live close to two tracks and plan to race there would you build your car to race competitively at those two tracks or would you build them to run 3 or 4 specials that you may lose money just travelling to?

 

There is a very good article by Kristin Swartzlander and anybody who subscribes to her blog will know why it is appropriate here.

first and for most i never said anything about nates dad so untill you get your facts straight its not worth  my time to argue with you 2nd yes i did have a pro 1 strreet stock for sale it is an 06 so if you no anything about racing and chassis builders they change the way they build cars form year to year and some chassis are built the we the driver/owner wants them so with that being said you are wrong oh and my car was sold the suppossed none pro1

[babyjesusracing]

I am sorry if this ends up being a lengthy post but I guess you don't have to read it.  I am also in no way affiliated with the 28N team, I do know Nate and talk to him on occasion but am no part of his team.

 

Babyjesus you say that Nate was illegal Saturday night and the tech official told you that he was illegal but give him a week and it will be legal.  You have stated that Nate's dad is the tech man and you have never stated anything about anybody else be a tech official, others have established that Denny does not tech the street stocks, so are you saying that Denny (Nates dad) came to you and told you the car was illegal and what the infraction was?

 

I have heard statements from others that after the race the cars were pulled into the infield and Nate wasn't allowed to have photos taken until after he passed tech.  Once in the infield Rich (the track promoter) and Jeremy (the tech official for street stocks) went to Ray Hickock and Jeff Sweeney and said I am tired of getting phone calls about this car being illegal and asked them to come with them to tech the car and witness it.  They proceeded to measure the wheelbase that came out to be equal for both sides of the car in conflict of what you have stated here on a public forum!  They also measured the control arms on the rear of the car which was also found to be legal.  The stuck a magnet on the block and heads which both showed to be steel and legal.  They pulled the distributor cap off to check for traction control and low and behold there was none.  At some point in time they established his car legal and he was awarded the win.  If an official told you his car was illegal which official was it?  How many times this year has he been found illegal and allowed to continue racing as you have claimed?  What were the infractions?

 

Babyjesus you have a Pro-1 street stock chassis advertised for sale on the classifieds of this board.  Did you purchase this chassis new from Dave Kline Motorsports?  Do you have any photos of the chassis?  If you don't mind me asking who did you purchase this car from?  Have you ever been in contact with Dave Kline Motorsports to confirm that your car is indeed a Pro-1 car?  I have been told that the car you have for sale is not a Pro-1 chassis and was just curious if you were snookered when you purchased the car, whether you are trying to defraud someone else intentionally or if possibly the car is a Pro-1?  There haven't been many chassis come out of that shop so it's not hard to account for them all.

 

Nate raced at Lernerville last year and was doing pretty good for himself before he ran into problems, contrary to recent statements that he has never been to Lernerville.  He has also won I believe 2 Chilli bowl races at tracks other then MCS or DHS.  At Marion Center they redraw the top 6 from the heat races to establish the starting order for the feature, therefore if Nate hasn't had to start at the back of a feature it is because he has done well for himself in heat races.  Just 2 or 3 weeks ago in the makeup feature Nate started dead last and won.

 

If you go to the Dave Kline Motorsports Facebook page you can see several pictures of the car being built in several different stages of completion.  Looking at the pictures anyone can see that it is a stock Monte Carlo frame with the very rear clip of the car replaced with rectangular tubing to mount the fuel cell.  The car uses the stock control arm mounting points on the front and rear of the frame.  I am not quite sure how this makes his car a late model and that he needs to run the car with late models?  The frame that was used was the frame from the strictly stock car that Nate campaigned that was actually twisted.  Babyjesus also claimed earlier that this car is a house car and the Smith's don't have any money in it, that is absolutely false.  I know for a fact that Denny ordered the chassis and paid for it in addition to bringing the frame for the car.

 

The engine was built by Nate's father in their garage.  Helman's machine did the machine work to the engine and Denny did the rest.  I am sure that they used quality parts in the engine but I am also sure it did not cost near as much as some of the guys' engines that they compete against.  I have heard dollar amounts that guys have spent to have race engine shops build their motors and it is ridiculous.  If you ask Nate I am sure he will tell you that you have to have 800 horsepower in your motor to compete as he walks away smiling and laughing at you.

 

 Denny drives water truck for an oilfield company working long hours during the week and Nate has recently graduated high school and completed higher education before landing a pretty good job, unfortunately he is now laid off.  The claims of large amounts of money being dumped into the car just doesn't seem to tread water.  Up until this year they hauled to the races on an old rollback and over the winter Nate purchased a cheap used enclosed trailer that they haul with.  They used the money they had wisely and invested into the car.  There is a guy racing at Marion Center that pulls in with a big fancy truck and a brand new fancy spread axle trailer and he isn't even close to being a threat to win. 

 

I know Nate would love to travel to bigger races but a lot of them just don't make sense financially.  And if you live close to two tracks and plan to race there would you build your car to race competitively at those two tracks or would you build them to run 3 or 4 specials that you may lose money just travelling to?

 

There is a very good article by Kristin Swartzlander and anybody who subscribes to her blog will know why it is appropriate here.

oh and i personally know that guy you are talking about with the fancy truck and spead axle trailor his car is 100 percent legal and maybe that why all the closer he can get is 3 since he is no threat to winning (here is a suggestion to you y don't you go and say that to that guys face and see what he says to you with a smile on his face)

[#1pitcrew]

Drtracer27 you have pretty convincing story there but as you said everything you know about the tech part is all heresay, absolutely none of it is facts therefore There's still room for reasonable doubt. As far as sticking a magnet on the block and heads dosnt prove anything. You can throw steel dust or grindings on heads therefore a magnet will stick, I actually know people that have done it.

[racinglife88]

Drtracer27 someone that's not affiliated with this team boy you sure do know a lot about the car, where they work and etc.. Does his dad work for the track or not? You sure you don't drive a car for this team? Bottom line is rules are rules if his car wheel base, engine, shocks, exhaust, seat, steering wheel or what ever is illegal its illegal. Stop with all of the rule books are not clear crap. That's just yins trying to twist the rules. Just make it legal that all you and the team needs to do. Stop with all of the excuses. Maybe a boycott is in order he can race himself. Hit MC where it hurts in the pocketbook.

[BLUE OVAL 7]

RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG ,AND HOPE YOU BROUGHT ENOUGH! RACING IS NOT EASY . GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS EITHER STAY HOME ,AND QUIT CRYING ,OR WORK ON YOUR JUNK TO MAKE IT FASTER !

[Drtracer27]

I may be wrong that you said Nate's dad was the tech man.  I am sorry for saying that you did say it without researching it and getting you confused with someone else.

 

I didn't say that you did not indeed have a Pro-1 chassis, I said I have been told that it was not and I asked how you knew it was a Pro-1?  Whether you called the chassis builder and asked them or just took the word of the person you purchased it from or just decided on your own that it was.  I have some familiarity with chassis and I know that chassis change from year to year and even car to car.  I also know that I have seen just about every chassis that has come out of the Pro-1 shop and had discussions about the changes from chassis to chassis with Floyd.  How many chassis do you think were produced by Pro-1 chassis in 2006?  It isn't hard to track the small number of cars that have been produced.

 

Who said anything about arguing with you?  You are free to post your opinions just as I am, anybody is also allowed to call you out and ask questions about the things you post and check accuracy.  It isn't really fair for people to just post whatever they want and lead people to believe it is true whether it is or not.

 

As far as stating that the guy with the fancy truck and trailer hasn't been a threat to win, I don't understand why he would take that as an attack on him and want to have a physical confrontation.  It is factual information and he should take it as a challenge to improve on his program and become more competitive.  I don't have any clue as to why he isn't more competitive I just know that the amount of money tied up in getting him to the track hasn't helped his performance, as money isn't everything.  And it is assuring that you post on a message board that he is 100 percent legal.

[Drtracer27]

1pitfan, yes what I heard about the tech procedure was hearsay and may or may not be factual.  The question becomes is what babyjesus said factual?  I only asked a few simple questions without being boligerant or accusing him of anything.  There is room for reasonable doubt in both ways, so the question becomes why is it ok to throw Nate under the bus and run him into the ground without any type of proof?

 

Racinglife88, I know quite a bit about many teams that I am not a part of.  Have you been around racing for long?  If you have I am sure that you have become familiar with many drivers and teams without being a part of their team.  Heck I know quite a bit about Hucktyson and I have never ever met him in my life.  I have never claimed that the rulebooks are unclear.  I have never worked on Nate's so I don't think I will be helping his crew make the car legal as you state.  I have never claimed that his car is legal or that it is illegal.  The problem I have is with people who can come on to a public forum and just bash the heck out of him and accuse him of cheating with absolutely no basis.  If he is illegal and he gets caught then that is a different story.  I do know Nate and talk to him occasionally and I can assure you he won't come on here and defend himself.  Refer to the blog post I referenced earlier.  Oh, and to answer your questions: yes Nate's dad works for the track and yes I am sure that I do not drive for the team.

Edited by Drtracer27, 14 July 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[RocketRide]

Sounds like drtracer 27 , and Blue oval 7, have all the answers, LMAO, I get a good laugh everytime i look at this board.

[racinglife88]

drtrace 27 just make the car legal that's all we ask. Everyone just wants to have a chance to win each week. You/his dad works for the track say no more JUST PLAY BY THE RULES if you/him wins then well we're not worthy

[redflagwreck]

Maybe the answer to everyone's problems is to go to Dave Kline Motorsports an buy a car

[beardedgoat]

Drtracer27 someone that's not affiliated with this team boy you sure do know a lot about the car, where they work and etc.. Does his dad work for the track or not? You sure you don't drive a car for this team? Bottom line is rules are rules if his car wheel base, engine, shocks, exhaust, seat, steering wheel or what ever is illegal its illegal. Stop with all of the rule books are not clear crap. That's just yins trying to twist the rules. Just make it legal that all you and the team needs to do. Stop with all of the excuses. Maybe a boycott is in order he can race himself. Hit MC where it hurts in the pocketbook.

i agree...and i also know for a fact that his dad is a official at the track and any car that comes through that gate that shows any threat to the 28n his dad sends his posse to check it with a "fine tooth comb"! Not sure if they know what there looking for...... But in all fairness his dad changes his official shirt to a regular shirt when that class is on the track.

[faster1]

In all reality if that car is 2" short on the left side it should be so loose its undriveable.

[lm/0/12/71/72]

This debate goes on at every track. In the street stocks at Mercer a couple of years ago the 17m couldn't hardly ever lose. A lot of people bitched about how illegal he was. I sat next to his family and one of his boys I think it was told me they let them go all over his car and they could find nothing illegal about it. I have a buddy to this day swears up and down he had an illegal part , maybe traction control I don't know and he took it off , therefore that's why he wasn't winning as much. I think he won 13 or 14 features that year. A lot of his success comes from nearly 30 years of driving experience. Some weeks you can be the champ and other weeks the chump , maybe they guess wrong on the setup or tire once in awhile , we used to guess the wrong tire or gear some weeks and went from first to worst in a hurry. I would like to see him come to the little guys in Sept. just to see how he would do or if he would be like the first 2 winners of the little guys especially Ken Drake in his car that ran like a steel block Late Model. They tightened the rules up a bit after that.

[Drtracer27]

Racinglife88 you know for a fact that the 28N car is illegal?  It may very well be I don't know for sure, but since you know it is illegal and needs to be made legal then please let us on here know what it is for sure that is illegal and how you know that?  Nate's dad works for the track, my dad has never worked for a race track. 

 

Rocketride I am not sure what answers I have that were posted besides 2 questions that were asked directly to me that I answered.  Instead I see many more questions in my posts then answers.  Possibly truth is overrated to some, I didn't say that anybody's posts were incorrect, I just posted that I had heard a different version then the original poster and asked him a few questions to help me determine who was correct.  I also asked him a few more questions about other topics and posted a few opinions that I had.  I am not quite sure what your abstract comment of having all the answers was referring to but I am glad you get some laughs from it.

 

The original post may have been correct but I guess we will have to wait until Saturday to find out, I will be here to post and say "hey he was absolutely correct" if that turns out to be the case.  However, if it turns out that the events didn't happen as he stated will he be here to say "hey guys what I said wasn't true and I am sorry that it caused two or more pages of unfounded accusations that he was cheating".

 

I will absolutely agree with one thing that I think should be more of the focus:  I do think that the 28N is killing the street stock class at MCS and DHS.  It seems that guys are not happy about him winning a lot and not being able to beat him consistently.  It definitely seems to have had an affect on the car counts.  Maybe even a discussion as too what the tracks need to do if he doesn't move up.  He has been teched at Dog Hollow as well as Marion Center this year and has passed their tech including having his motor pumped.  Marion Center has stated that they have hired a new tech man to do street stocks and strictly stocks starting this upcoming Saturday, what if another tech inspector comes in and says the car is legal?  If nothing can be found illegal with his car by tech inspectors should he just be banned because he is too fast and people on internet message boards say his car is illegal?  His car also passed tech last year at Lernerville Speedway for one of their season ending specials.  Should the rules be changed somehow to make others more competitive with his car?  Should the drivers competing against him continue to work and make their cars more competitive?  The last season I remember Sweeney in the 222 racing a full season he won something like 7 features and this past Saturday he was right on the bumper of the 28N for pretty much the entire race.  Does this mean he is cheating as well?  If he goes on to win a couple of features in a row should the driver of the 222 be tarred and feathered as a bigger cheater then the 28N even if they can't find anything illegal with his car?  Does anybody have an accurate count of the number of features the 80 of Goss won at DHS the last couple of years he ran there?  Was he also most definitely cheating because he was almost untouchable even though they couldn't find anything wrong with his car through multiple inspections?  What if the new tech inspector finds the 28N legal and several of his competitors illegal, does that mean it is absolutely a conspiracy because nobody can win a bunch of races without being illegal according to posters on a racing forum?  Dog Hollow has decided to meet the challenge with a bounty, Marion Center has decided to hire another tech official and several of his competitors have decided to meet the challenge by crying on a racing forum that he has to be cheating because they cant beat him.  What if they do find an infraction and he corrects it and continues to dominate? 

[Walt Wimer]

Rusty Moore has been winning races at Mercer for 20 years!!  And currently has a streak of four straight going.  He is second in Cavalcade Points and actually gained a couple points on Smith this week due to double point races at Mercer & Expo.  A. J. Poljak is undefeated at Motordrome with 10 straight and Dave Krawczyk has six straight at Lake Erie.  Nate Smith now has 14 wins overall and undefeated in six races at Dog Hollow.  Putting up big numbers in the Street Stocks is not all that unusual!!

 

Walt