44 replies to this topic

[race ace]

to answer these 2 questions .....1... legend you said if you think badmouthing a track shuts it down you need to slam your schming in a steel door that is all i was saying ........... and nick laffredo the rule now is 8 inch wheels and ten inch tires seems to me a 10 inch wheel and a 10 inch tire would open up the class to a few more cars that only have 6 or 8 cars weekly .if you run a ten inch wheel add a hundred pounds to the car or whatever.

[714d]

If you add 10inch to the pure stocks, you have a street stock at some tracks. These two classes are so close now, they need to be combined. Give a weight break for engine size only. Open rules 3200lb like all open shows already are. 358 and under 3000 and tweak from there. Whatever keeps the field competitive. One less class so folks get home earlier. Same cars, combine the purses. Pay about $500 to win weekly. Pay a $100 bonus to first time winners to attract cars from other tracks. (They probably brought that $100 and then some with them anyway) so just giving them their money back. Fresh ideas are not too hard to come up with. Solutions to keep all current cars legal and competitive are the best.

[Dickracer99]

Legend, I agree with your statement above.  My Dad used to say back in his day, every garage had a race car in it, or was part of a crew.  We used to have 3-4 down our garage complex alone.  Now I'm the only one left.

 

I remember thinking, man emods are getting out of hand from 2009-2011, I just can't compete anymore against these new Shaw chassis, Yates Motors, etc.  Now, I'm spending even more just to race Sportsman!  Same open motors, but with steel heads, LM tires versus the RC4's, same shocks, now they're allowing open carbs, it's crazy!  And I had a 2000 Downey car given to me, we clipped it IN HOUSE and put it together ourselves to save money

Street Sock/Pure Stock Rules: 

8in Dirt Tires Hard Compound, No Racing Transmissions(Brinn/ Falcon ect.) 358Ci Max. Pump Gas Only (93 Octane) Weight 2800-3000lbs

This would help bring the cost down so you don't have to put $20k plus into your street stock to be competitive.

[racer777]

Street Sock/Pure Stock Rules: 
8in Dirt Tires Hard Compound, No Racing Transmissions(Brinn/ Falcon ect.) 358Ci Max. Pump Gas Only (93 Octane) Weight 2800-3000lbs
This would help bring the cost down so you don't have to put $20k plus into your street stock to be competitive.

23° heads only with a track supplied restrictor plate. 650 edelBrock carb.

[Racer17L]

^ that division already basically exists- but with a 305- amature stocks. The current street stock division is too far gone to reel back in. Not crying, just explaining what some guys have into them nowadays.

[racer67x]

kinda funny that the first car I drove years ago was a 5th design Howe front/6th design rear,Camaro stock clip with leafs,9 inch,355 with close to open rules other than cubic inch..and a Camaro somewhat looking wedge body. that was 1984 and the division was called "The Flying Streetstocks"..a new class was being formed called "Pure/Spectator Stocks" due to costs getting out of hand for everyone especially beginners. the following year the class was dumped and rules were opened further calling them "Limited Lates".. I could have parked that car and it would be legal now in what the Pure stocks have morphed into by constantly opening up the rules..in fact the Hobby/Amateur stocks are what we raced as Purestocks 15 years ago. maybe its time to create rules to lump the crates in with the lates to up the car count and cut loose the Limiteds again. same as it was in the mid 80's somehow we have arrived at about the same crossroads?

[IMPERIALTIRE11]

^^^^^^^^^^ 67x^^^^^^  How many times have we seen the cost get out of hand, the car counts drop and oh "this is gonna save the racer money"  Think the lesson would have been learned?   

 

When the class was Limited late we had the "SPEC" engine, same as the Lates models only on gas  358 cu spec manifold, spec alum heads, if u wanted to run late model put in on alcohol ,bigger spoiler and take weight off. Then " gonna save you money"  Economy engine , well no you didnt i already had a spec engine that worked fine and i built myself, then wait "gonna save me money" again with a 602 and then the next year "oh you can run a 604"  Both low HP grenades that you cant work on yourself if something happens to it. We use to build the cars, the engines, the carbs our selves and if you knew what you were doing you could figure out your car for the way you drove and win that way. Not have cookie cutter cars that run fast laps all night long....JMO

Edited by IMPERIALTIRE11, 22 July 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[The Legend]

Those 2004 limited late motor rules were decent. GM block , specific unported world products heads , no shaft rockers , flat tappet cam , wet sump , gas only , no lightened cranks , no titanium anything and 5.49 max gear. So then like you said they made those motors worthless when they allowed then required the 602 and the 602 worthless when they allowed the 604. The best way to prevent big motors from being a huge advantage is to make the tracks dead slick... Then the fan cry because unless cars come
Off on 2 hooks fans aren't happy . If cars can't afford to race there's no cars and fans aren't happy with that either. They never should have allowed double adjustable reservoir shocks on crate cars . If they make a max 100lb rebound @3" on the right front and a max 50lb compression @3" on the left rear then cars wouldn't be solid suspension go carts that could be run wide open by inexperienced drivers . Making cars solid suspension go carts that can be run wide open by inexperienced drivers is what causes red flag car destroying wrecks. Then to saving money on late models , open tires essentially means 1425's which last fine at ppms and actually fire on restarts. The people who cheat their 1600's do so to
Make them run like 1425's. So just let them run the damn 1425's instead of exposing everyone to carcinogenic compounds . So last week I bought 1425's for the " open tire " race and spent hours grooving and siping and got rained out. Now this week I need 1600's and repeat the process all over .... Huge money and time savings right there ....

[RocketChassis#1]

kinda funny that the first car I drove years ago was a 5th design Howe front/6th design rear,Camaro stock clip with leafs,9 inch,355 with close to open rules other than cubic inch..and a Camaro somewhat looking wedge body. that was 1984 and the division was called "The Flying Streetstocks"..a new class was being formed called "Pure/Spectator Stocks" due to costs getting out of hand for everyone especially beginners. the following year the class was dumped and rules were opened further calling them "Limited Lates".. I could have parked that car and it would be legal now in what the Pure stocks have morphed into by constantly opening up the rules..in fact the Hobby/Amateur stocks are what we raced as Purestocks 15 years ago. maybe its time to create rules to lump the crates in with the lates to up the car count and cut loose the Limiteds again. same as it was in the mid 80's somehow we have arrived at about the same crossroads?

 

Go back to when PPMS opened in 1979 how much more stock those Flying Street Stocks were to when the class was dropped after 1984. This class originated a year or two before at Jennerstown, and Motordrome and PPMS used those rules. The class was also at St. Clairsville. The reason for the class was the old Semi-Late class was getting too expensive  for beginners. The class was doing its job as I remember guys like Larry Kugel, Kurt Halbedl, etc. all move thru the Street Stocks to the Semi-Lates. Then after 1984 the powers that be said the Semi-Lates were too expensive, so the class was dropped for 1985, (though it did come back in 1986 &87 for about a season and a half) and as you say the Street Stocks were upgraded to the Limited Lates.

Edited by RocketChassis#1, 22 July 2014 - 01:45 PM.

[RocketChassis#1]

^ that division already basically exists- but with a 305- amature stocks. The current street stock division is too far gone to reel back in. Not crying, just explaining what some guys have into them nowadays.

It hit me at your dad's memorial race this year how far gone the Sportsman/Street Stock class is. I made the comment that now we have three classes of Late Models with no real difference in appearence for the fans. Some of the out of town cars appearence wise looked as good as the Super Lates. Only lap times seperate the classes, and even those are painfully close to other classes.

[racer67x]

It hit me at your dad's memorial race this year how far gone the Sportsman/Street Stock class is. I made the comment that now we have three classes of Late Models with no real difference in appearence for the fans. Some of the out of town cars appearence wise looked as good as the Super Lates. Only lap times seperate the classes, and even those are painfully close to other classes.

and the supers car counts are dropping like a rock..thats why I said its time to call these stock stub cars Limiteds and make rules so that tube frame cars can all run together.

[Racer17L]

^ totally agree.  Check this out.

 

first Sportsman heat race winner: Rusty Martz 21.043, 106.924 Mi/h

 

first Crate heat winner: Nico Dabecco 19.461 115.616 Mi/h

 

only 1.5 seconds difference, and the Sportsman weigh 3000 lbs!

[BUTTBEAK]

LACK OF RULE ENFORCEMENT.

 

This is what I see as the biggest problem with local circle track racing today.

 

Promoters/Owners need start acting responsibly, put the fear of public humiliation and disqualification on the minds of race teams.

[Express Man]

Lets take off the gas canister shocks and see who can drive a racecar!  They easily take %35 percent of the driver out of the equation!  Plus regular oil shocks cost like $150.00 not $750.00  Lets get back to a $1000.00 shock pakage per car!  be way better racing for the fans and Much Cheaper for the drivers!  However...then the young kids couldn't drive these cars!

[jmmr]

You see exactly wat happened to dirt happening to asphalt now- thank god we are behind the times compared to you guys or else I would've been out years ago. I honestly don't know how a small budget guy competes on dirt- the 305 class at ppms should be the same as the class at drone and Jtown with the exact same tech to build that class. Entry level racing is becoming a thing of the past sadly.

[The Legend]

Racing got to the point by the absurd notion that double adjustable Ohlins are cheaper than non adjustable pros because used Ohlins cost less than 5 new pros lol. Limiting valving would
Majorly change the game ....

[NotToday]

Racing is fulll of unique creative people, no matter the rules someone willl come up with something that is questionable but still passes tech, the next guy will come up with something on top of that, pretty soon it's out-a-control. It's all part of how far along manufacturing and markrting has come along in America. Now you can get a part that does not exist in a week or two, years ago you could only dream of it, but there was no one or machine to make it. ANY rules change ANY will cost you money (even if the thought is to save money). The guys racing today are only racing cause they have had the equipment and kept up incrementally, if they had to start with nothing, I think you would loose 2/3rds of the cars. Local racing needs new cars, new people, new money it can't survive with the same guys passing the same money around.

[jake shady]

Local racing needs new cars, new people, new money it can't survive with the same guys passing the same money around.

what a statement!!!. where are the new cars people and money supposed to come from?? better re-think that statement [Not Today]

[NotToday]

I did still the same. Maybe u could find someone whos never been take them to the races, they might want to get involved then they might bring some one new.

[race ace]

the rules at a.m.p for the purestocks and the rules for the street stock leave guys like me and quite a few others between classes , you cant afford to go up to a bert transmission and a full roller engine but your tires and rims are too wide to run pure stock that is why since the rules have been changed numerous times since this track reopened  i was saying let us run the 10 inch wheels but have a weight  difference of a few hundred pounds  or what ever maybe pay the guys with the narrow tires  a bigger purse if they beat the guys with wide tires . there needs to be some way to add cars to the class that does not hurt anyone but like i said before change the rules after this season so it does not affect anyone running now .