37 replies to this topic

[dirtstudent2]

Below was copied from the web off of a show business site.  The point of posting is racers because of the control by tracks in both how the job is done and what is required to do the job as in required tires, etc., are not private contractors and are because of what is required employees of the track.

 

___________________

 

There are many factors which determine how an individual is classified. However, the IRS guidelines state:

 

"The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if you, the person for whom the services are performed, have the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result".

 

"Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

 

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A racer being required to bring specific tires and equipment to do their job is no different then a Car Garage requiring employees to bring their own tools to work.  On a side note because racers are employees, they should at least get minimum wage pay for time spent at the track.  

 

[dirtstudent2]

What I offered about racers not being independent contractors but employees of the track is not all bad.  It sets up the possibility for tracks then to contract with a "Loan-Out Corporation" for racers services.  For racers to race they would need to be employees of the "Loan-Out Corporation" and taxes and withholding's would be handled by the  "Loan-Out Corporation".  The good part of it is racers would then become part of Workman's Compensation through the "Loan-Out Corporation".  Racers would then work for the "Loan-Out Corporation" and tracks would pay a set fee per racer to the "Loan-Out Corporation" for the racers services.

 

Because of what is required by tracks of racers, what I read explains to me racers are not independent contractors.  is it good bad I don't know, but when tracks started requiring W-9's for purposes of defining racers as independent contractors it appears to have been wrong.  The racers did not demand it, tracks did to what appears to be incorrectly bypassing requirements of racers being employees.  

Edited by dirtstudent2, 17 August 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[daviesfan4life]

you have too much time on your hands and should consider a part time job

[ramsey31]

 Just because a business controls how functions are done, does not make it automatically an "employer."    90% of General Contractors require a sub to maintain work comp, liability insurance, safety plans, etc etc.    Requiring a racer to use a certain tire is no different than our customers requiring us to provide a waiver of subrogation for our Liability Insurance.  They are controlling our requirement for service.   Our customers also require us to use certain protocols on location along with protective gear.

 

The facility does not provide training, or even require you to actually pull onto the track.   You could come to every event, and sit on your trailer all night long, and you would never receive a reprimand.    They also do not provide work comp insurance (we purchase our own via a pit pass), and the track provides nothing to perform a service of entertainment.   I do not see how it would ever be considered an employer-employee relationship.

Edited by ramsey31, 17 August 2016 - 02:53 PM.

[Won11Virus]

Please don't engage him. It will only encourage his ramblings.

[racer67x]

 Just because a business controls how functions are done, does not make it automatically an "employer."    90% of General Contractors require a sub to maintain work comp, liability insurance, safety plans, etc etc.    Requiring a racer to use a certain tire is no different than our customers requiring us to provide a waiver of subrogation for our Liability Insurance.  They are controlling our requirement for service.   Our customers also require us to use certain protocols on location along with protective gear.
 
The facility does not provide training, or even require you to actually pull onto the track.   You could come to every event, and sit on your trailer all night long, and you would never receive a reprimand.    They also do not provide work comp insurance (we purchase our own via a pit pass), and the track provides nothing to perform a service of entertainment.   I do not see how it would ever be considered an employer-employee relationship.

if you don't perform at the track you get no check,any track I've ever raced won't pay unless you complete at least one lap of the feature..and you don't get a 1099 till you get over $500.00.

[lrnvlFan1w]

I've never paid to get into work.

What you wrote is pretty intriguing though.

[blue by you]

how do you think this stuff up. wow!!!

[DavyLee2]

Yes .. Lets have the Sodomite IRS and the Party of Sodomy and Abortion mandate Socialist rules over another industry .. just like they did to the Pittsburgh Steel industry and the vacant 9 mile stretch of nothing that was once a 6000 employee steel mill no longer anywhere near Pittsburgh called JnL Steel .. 54% Unemployment in the Black youth population isn't enough !!  lets make the minimum wage $25 per hour so that robots will be fully implemented .. and black youth and white youth who have nothing better to look forward to than a government check ( LIKE THIS AUTHOR ABOVE) run rampant in the streets like Black Liars matter  .

" you Americans are so gullible ( johnathen gruger calls you democrats " Stupid American voters" )

No you wont accept Communism outright!

but we'll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you one day wake up and find you already have Communism

We wont have to fight you , we will so weaken your economy ( by sending checks to the guy above with printed money owed to pay back by Americas Babies )

that you will fall like over ripe fruit into our hands!"

 

These works spoken by a respected Champion of the Sodomy / Abortion / Kill god / tear the ten commandments from the court house  Party of America

Nikita Krushchev

[flash49]

Yes .. Lets have the Sodomite IRS and the Party of Sodomy and Abortion mandate Socialist rules over another industry .. just like they did to the Pittsburgh Steel industry and the vacant 9 mile stretch of nothing that was once a 6000 employee steel mill no longer anywhere near Pittsburgh called JnL Steel .. 54% Unemployment in the Black youth population isn't enough !!  lets make the minimum wage $25 per hour so that robots will be fully implemented .. and black youth and white youth who have nothing better to look forward to than a government check ( LIKE THIS AUTHOR ABOVE) run rampant in the streets like Black Liars matter  .

" you Americans are so gullible ( johnathen gruger calls you democrats " Stupid American voters" )

No you wont accept Communism outright!

but we'll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you one day wake up and find you already have Communism

We wont have to fight you , we will so weaken your economy ( by sending checks to the guy above with printed money owed to pay back by Americas Babies )

that you will fall like over ripe fruit into our hands!"

 

These works spoken by a respected Champion of the Sodomy / Abortion / Kill god / tear the ten commandments from the court house  Party of America

Nikita Krush

 

 

 

 

Where do you get this tripe?

[FanJim24]

 

Yes .. Lets have the Sodomite IRS and the Party of Sodomy and Abortion mandate Socialist rules over another industry .. just like they did to the Pittsburgh Steel industry and the vacant 9 mile stretch of nothing that was once a 6000 employee steel mill no longer anywhere near Pittsburgh called JnL Steel .. 54% Unemployment in the Black youth population isn't enough !!  lets make the minimum wage $25 per hour so that robots will be fully implemented .. and black youth and white youth who have nothing better to look forward to than a government check ( LIKE THIS AUTHOR ABOVE) run rampant in the streets like Black Liars matter  .

" you Americans are so gullible ( johnathen gruger calls you democrats " Stupid American voters" )

No you wont accept Communism outright!

but we'll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you one day wake up and find you already have Communism

We wont have to fight you , we will so weaken your economy ( by sending checks to the guy above with printed money owed to pay back by Americas Babies )

that you will fall like over ripe fruit into our hands!"

 

These works spoken by a respected Champion of the Sodomy / Abortion / Kill god / tear the ten commandments from the court house  Party of America

Nikita Krush

 

 

 

 

Where do you get this tripe?

 

Actually, he has a point.  If you think racing is expensive now let the IRS into it and it will seem like it's been free all this time, by comparison.  

[dirtstudent2]

Please tell me how causing tracks to pay racers better for their services and charging racers less as customers is going to make racing more expensive for racers?  

 

You can't even tell me why it will make racing more expensive for front gate fans because paying racers better and reducing the cost to race for racers will make for a better show for the fans and the number of fans will increase.  A track does not need to increase the price of admission for fans if they have more fans come through the gate. 

 

The real debate is will making it cost less to race make the show better and increase the number of fans.  

 

I say it will.  I say the only reason fans come in the first place is to see the racing.  Reduce the cost to race and even if there's a debate about racing not being better, there will be a heck of a lot more of it.

[dirtstudent2]

I'll ask the question differently.

 

Please tell me who does it help when you make it cost more for racers to race?

[Hatorade]

An employee shows up to work at the control of the employer. An employee uses the employers tools, equipment and falls under the umbrella of the employers insurance. Some trades, like a mechanic the employer may require the employee to bring their own tools.

 

A subcontractor may show up at a time when the employer is open/working and predominately uses his/her own equipment and have their own insurance. When they receive a 1099 box 7 will be filled out which is for services rendered.

 

A race car driver is not a sub or an employee. They are there to win a race which involve a prize/award hence why when a 1099 is received the amount reported should be in box 3 Other Income. Box three of the 1099 is for prizes and awards for SERVICES NOT RENDERED. While they are providing entertainment the pay they receive is a prize based on where they finish. Consider the tire rules/requirement as a term and condition of the contest.

 

According to the IRS you have to 1099 someone if they receive over $600. The IRS has to hold someone accountable. If they see money being paid out they want to know where it is going. Otherwise you would have tracks saying that it was all paid out resulting in no income.

Edited by Hatorade, 24 August 2016 - 12:47 PM.

[blue by you]

I'll ask the question differently.

 

Please tell me who does it help when you make it cost more for racers to race?

you need to ask matt miley that question.

[DavyLee2]

Racing is the best display of capitalism ( the principle America was founded on ) on the planet.

Overeaching government is the Antichrist of capitalism ..

Flash .. with all respect to you as a fellow American .. Google " Johnathen Gruber stupid American voters" so that you may see the " tripe " for yourself that 2/4 and 11 don't think you need to know.

Government is needed for many things however our government is now in about 3 trillion more things than originally intended.

google " EPA wants to ban turning passenger cars into racecars"

Raising the minimum wage takes jobs away !

Leftists always view Economics upside down ..

Government force: shut down the coal mines in our region by shutting down 8 powerplants in Pa alone!

" the road to tyranny is paved with good intentions "

it is quite obvious in western Pa who has the best treatment for there racers over the years ... its the track that is packed every week since a truck driver would hand money to a guy who was down on his luck !

didn't take a sodomite in Washington dc to do that ..

[flash49]

Racing is the best display of capitalism ( the principle America was founded on ) on the planet.

Overeaching government is the Antichrist of capitalism ..

Flash .. with all respect to you as a fellow American .. Google " Johnathen Gruber stupid American voters" so that you may see the " tripe " for yourself that 2/4 and 11 don't think you need to know.

Government is needed for many things however our government is now in about 3 trillion more things than originally intended.

google " EPA wants to ban turning passenger cars into racecars"

Raising the minimum wage takes jobs away !

Leftists always view Economics upside down ..

Government force: shut down the coal mines in our region by shutting down 8 powerplants in Pa alone!

" the road to tyranny is paved with good intentions "

it is quite obvious in western Pa who has the best treatment for there racers over the years ... its the track that is packed every week since a truck driver would hand money to a guy who was down on his luck !

didn't take a sodomite in Washington dc to do that ..

I

 

I could care less about your politics, what I object to about you is the name calling you use, e.g.,  sodomites, in almost everything you post on here.  Jonathan Gruber was featured on the national news on all the networks when he made the remarks you speak of at an educational conference. Not sure you realize this, but he was one of the architects of both the Romney Health Care plan in Massachusetts, and the Affordable Care Act.  Since you're so fond of quoting academics, how about a little dose of Paul Krugman, he has quite a different take on economics than you do, not saying that he's right.  The steel industry shut down because we could no longer compete with emerging Asian markets, not because of the government.  And no matter who is elected President, the steel industry is not going to make a comeback in Pittsburgh.  

[flash49]

Racing is the best display of capitalism ( the principle America was founded on ) on the planet.

Overeaching government is the Antichrist of capitalism ..

Flash .. with all respect to you as a fellow American .. Google " Johnathen Gruber stupid American voters" so that you may see the " tripe " for yourself that 2/4 and 11 don't think you need to know.

Government is needed for many things however our government is now in about 3 trillion more things than originally intended.

google " EPA wants to ban turning passenger cars into racecars"

Raising the minimum wage takes jobs away !

Leftists always view Economics upside down ..

Government force: shut down the coal mines in our region by shutting down 8 powerplants in Pa alone!

" the road to tyranny is paved with good intentions "

it is quite obvious in western Pa who has the best treatment for there racers over the years ... its the track that is packed every week since a truck driver would hand money to a guy who was down on his luck !

didn't take a sodomite in Washington dc to do that ..

 

Actually, he has a point.  If you think racing is expensive now let the IRS into it and it will seem like it's been free all this time, by comparison.  

 

 

Actually, it's all the tripe surrounding his point that I object to.  

[DavyLee2]

The " tripe" he refers to is the scope of Vision you get from what more Socialism looks like  !...

To What it has already  done!

DavyLee 2016

Johnathen Gruber " the stupidity of the American voter "  November 2012

 

"The " is Thow and your mad at me for it

[flash49]

I'm not mad at you, we just disagree. The "tripe" I refer to is not your ideas, but the incomprehensible way you express yourself. I wouldn't be so sure Mr. Gruber was talking about me, it might have been "thou."