13 replies to this topic

[TUNACAN]

A thought lately really has been on my mind, so Ill throw it out there.    The fact is, we have a class for every kind of car you want to build.   From a Ford Tampon to a Leaf Spring Bullet to a 1/2 Street stock, 1/2 Late model to a Full blown $ 80k race piece, with a wing, without a wing, you name it.

 

It is also a fact that they only thing happening is that we keep dividing the same car counts, and since this area uses mostly odd ball rules, it limits anyone else from coming in, or anyone here from traveling far in most classes.

 

Its no secret that the street stocks in Western PA are not like the street stocks anywhere else.   An IMCA/Wissota Street stock looks more like our pure stock with a street stock geometry, yet on a DOT racing tire.   They also have specials that average $ 2500-$ 7500 bucks to win, and get plenty of cars.  Here we have street stocks with twice the money in them, that race for 1/2 as much.

 

With that said...Most of the people I have heard who have stepped up from a street stock to these  crate lates, 358 lates, steel block lates, or aluminum block lates have done so because its a similar expense, and yet they can bring more $$ home at the end of the night no matter where they finish

 

My question is this...since we now have 4 classes of late models, and each of those classes on average pay more to a driver than a street stock, will this put a nail in the coffin of most tracks having a decent class of street stocks, and ultimately kill that class off?

Edited by TUNACAN, 13 December 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[714d]

Long term, something is going to have to replace the street stock classes eventually. With the success of the penn-ohio series, I don't think it's ready to die just yet, but we're running out of rear wheel drive V-8 cars and you've listed a few other reasons why the class just doesn't make sense financially. I love the stocks more than any other class, but if things didn't change over time we'd still be running flathead coupes.

[kip77]

We're definitely at the tail end of the stock frame classes. It's just getting too hard to find decent frames. Sure is sad though. The street stocks have been my favorite class for years.

[LM RACING]

I'm sure that someone has or will start making a legal chassis in the next few years. As the junkyards dwindle down on the RWD cars the tracks will have to start allowing a replica chassis made by someone. I just hope they don't let it get too crazy or you may as well just let them run latemodel chassis.

[BaconBits]

I'm sure that someone has or will start making a legal chassis in the next few years. As the junkyards dwindle down on the RWD cars the tracks will have to start allowing a replica chassis made by someone. I just hope they don't let it get too crazy or you may as well just let them run latemodel chassis.

I believe the Nesmith stocks down south already have allowed the reproduction frames and they maintain all stock mounting points.

[rob0170]

When I first started going to races there were only 5 classes of cars, sprints, mods, late models semi lates, and stocks, and you had a full field for each class.now you got 4 different classes of late models 3 different classes of Mods, 2 classes of sprint cars and 2 or 3 classes of stocks.They are spreading the cars out and not getting many cars in each class. We should just go back to 5 classes and get uniformed set of rules for each class instead of dividing cars within each division. 

[ramsey31]

Most all new emods use a brand new stamping clip.   The demolition derby drivers have been going south for years bringing back clean cars.  Sure if you are looking locally they are slim for a clean chevelle, Camaro, or metric base.     If the class was balanced (pay vs expense), people would travel-they do for everything else.  IMO, Penn Ohio is the best chance at saving this class.   Respectfully, this class has unfortunetly followed our society.   Late models are like modular homes and double wides for a lot of weekly racers.   They are popular because the old wore out ones are cheap, and its easy to slap a bunch of purpose made parts together and race.  Used parts are also pretty cheap if you look around.  Starting with an OEM frame is like remodeling an older house.    If building yourself, takes more skill, more patience, and the knowledge of various factory specs to get the desired geometry you are after.  Its an art form.   It also takes a tremendous amount of time, which more and more people don't have with work, family, etc etc, so the thought of building a car from scratch is not appealing, just as though building a house from scratch is not to most people

 

I love the dirt track period, any class, but take an observation of a local late model field.  How many drivers have mastered the lower levels, and are ready for the next challenge?    How many drivers are out there because it base pays better, looks better, or any number of other reasons unrelated to their on track performance?

Edited by ramsey31, 14 December 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[Street Stocker]

The death of the street stock was when all of these tracks started switching to basically unlimited motors with the Penn-Ohio type rules.   The Semi-Late rules have more restrictions on them, and the frames are more plentiful.

[NotToday]

Plenty of s-10, rangers and dakotas out there.
Gets kinda boring watching 5 divisions that all look like late models, it kinda confusing to any new fans.

[whiteboy55]

10 in. wheels killed street stocks.

[BRC27]

There are a lot of good points being brought up.  Frames are getting hard to find, we're our own worst enemy, and there are way too many classes.  I miss the days of yore when you had to start out in a lower class and work your way up.  it was a different time period, and unfortunately wouldn't work with Todays classes.

 

In my opinion, I feel like this class can be saved but a couple things have to happen.  1.)We have to reduce the number of classes all around.  I'm ok with 2 classes of lates.  358/crate class and then a steel and aluminum class.  Anymore you need to have a FWD class. Combine the Pure Stocks, and Street stocks into 1Stock class.  Real these SS guys back in a bit and most of the Pure Stock guys are cheating anyway. and then have one class of Open wheel cars (Sprint, mod whatever).  5 Classes a night will keep fans entertained and if they differ in appearance, fans will associate better.

That brings me to my second point. 2.) Get rid of the damn Latemodel noses. (Wedge noses).  Bring back the stock appearance of these cars.  They all don't have to look like an 85 monte carlo or a 70's Camaro, but let's get rid of these wedge noses.  I'm fine with Aluminum bodies, and Fiber glass roofs, but the only way to visually tell the difference anymore between a LM and a SS is to look at the Lug pattern on the wheels.

3.) Let's unify the rules.  The more Tracks you can get on board the more successful everyone will be.  It does no good for one track to adopt a set of rules. and every other track in the area to have their own.  People don't want to race for points anymore.  most people are traveling to other tracks with the PennOhio series anyway.  Put a Cubic inch rule, a cam rule and a carb rule on these cars.  Make sure the shocks aren't adjustable, and put everyone on a 10" wheel with LM tires.  (I like that rule...it allows guys to save some money and buy used LM tires.)  Allow Stock and after market transmissions.  Neither gives someone a real advantage.  And allow after market OEM frames.  they are getting hard to find.

4.)Lastly you need tracks to Tech.  Rules do no good if no one is enforcing them.  Stop letting things go and making an excuse of why it doesn't make a difference.  You do that one time and guys are going to push the limits.  Then before you know it you're back to PennOhio rules.  Unlimited Cubic inch rules and 3 link suspensions.  Just my opinion

[Walt Wimer]

BRC-27.......Lot of good points here!!!   Especially to a guy sitting on  the sidelines watching the action!!   While I hate to see the E-Mods go, Sharon made a good move in cutting classes!!  Hope it works for them and other follow their lead!!

 

GOOD RACING!!!

 

Walt

[D1RT]

There are a lot of good points being brought up.  Frames are getting hard to find, we're our own worst enemy, and there are way too many classes.  I miss the days of yore when you had to start out in a lower class and work your way up.  it was a different time period, and unfortunately wouldn't work with Todays classes.
 
In my opinion, I feel like this class can be saved but a couple things have to happen.  1.)We have to reduce the number of classes all around.  I'm ok with 2 classes of lates.  358/crate class and then a steel and aluminum class.  Anymore you need to have a FWD class. Combine the Pure Stocks, and Street stocks into 1Stock class.  Real these SS guys back in a bit and most of the Pure Stock guys are cheating anyway. and then have one class of Open wheel cars (Sprint, mod whatever).  5 Classes a night will keep fans entertained and if they differ in appearance, fans will associate better.
That brings me to my second point. 2.) Get rid of the damn Latemodel noses. (Wedge noses).  Bring back the stock appearance of these cars.  They all don't have to look like an 85 monte carlo or a 70's Camaro, but let's get rid of these wedge noses.  I'm fine with Aluminum bodies, and Fiber glass roofs, but the only way to visually tell the difference anymore between a LM and a SS is to look at the Lug pattern on the wheels.
3.) Let's unify the rules.  The more Tracks you can get on board the more successful everyone will be.  It does no good for one track to adopt a set of rules. and every other track in the area to have their own.  People don't want to race for points anymore.  most people are traveling to other tracks with the PennOhio series anyway.  Put a Cubic inch rule, a cam rule and a carb rule on these cars.  Make sure the shocks aren't adjustable, and put everyone on a 10" wheel with LM tires.  (I like that rule...it allows guys to save some money and buy used LM tires.)  Allow Stock and after market transmissions.  Neither gives someone a real advantage.  And allow after market OEM frames.  they are getting hard to find.
4.)Lastly you need tracks to Tech.  Rules do no good if no one is enforcing them.  Stop letting things go and making an excuse of why it doesn't make a difference.  You do that one time and guys are going to push the limits.  Then before you know it you're back to PennOhio rules.  Unlimited Cubic inch rules and 3 link suspensions.  Just my opinion

It is a long known fact and history to back it up that Northwestern and Western PA tracks will never work together.
They are too worried someone might make a few dollars more than them so that's why the rules are the way they are.
Lock cars into their track...

[DavyLee2]

Enter the Mandate Crate engine to create a second market for Crate Racing .. Eventually they figure you will make the decision that if you are going to build a 15,000 dollar Stock car then why not buy a used Purpose built chasis Like a Rocket from the same guy you bought the motor and who needs the stock car !!!

Naturally next to come is the Rocket / Grt / whatever Mandated race car .. Just the same ME ME ME  Thinking as Tony George at Indy back at the beginning of the End of Indy cars until Danika saved them !

So the tracks that mandate the motors and Frames will next mandate the rest of the car ... and it wont be one you drag out of a junk yard and build yourself ....... 

 

We have seen the corruption of politics like never before until Trump Sledge Hammered it ! .. But I don't think the tracks filling their pockets with mandated parts has reached its climax yet!

Make money  by selling and mandating parts ( kickbacks and commissions  welcomed) and save the money on PAYING!! a Tech inspector.