26 replies to this topic

[sle21]

I am sure most people have noticed that car counts, especially in the late model, have been low in PA. It has been mentioned a few times during other threads and I think it is something worth having a discussion about.

So here it is, in your opinion tell us why you think the reasons are for low car counts.

I'll start by giving you my opinion for what it's worth. It seems like there are basically two types of classes in PA, high dollar open motor classes and crate classes. I think especially with the late model the problem is worse, not only do you have very expensive engines to compete at the top level, but you also have the influx of new chassis and shock technology that is making older equipment obsolete.

The other issue I see is there are too many divisions that force a team to be committed to one track and no uniform set of rules that would allow teams to travel to other tracks.

Unfortunately I do not feel there is much that can be done for top level divisions. The costs of cars and engines have gotten so out of hand that there isn't much that can be done to reel it back in.

In the all crate engine world, I think it caters to the racer that wants to simply write checks, bolt a few parts together and go racing. These divisions are leaving out the guys that would prefer to save money by building and maintaining their own motor. At the very least if crate racing is the future and we are all forced to buy into it, then I think gm has to offer some kind of limited warranty for the engines. At the end of the day, these are mediocre street engines.

[dirtstudent2]

"These divisions are leaving out the guys that would prefer to save money by building and maintaining their own motor."

 

Those divisions have pushed out the possibility of racers building and maintaining their own motors.  It has nothing at all to do with what racers prefer. 

[lvillefan19]

I think there are just to many types of cars in any given division. Like take late models for example. They have open motor, crate, steel block ,smaller open motor. It is just to much. With the sprints there are 410s 360s 305s. With mods there are small block, big block, crate.

Also with most of the tracks having different rules for each division. Tire rules, are the death of the racing as well. Also with most of the purses being the same as they were 10 years ago doesn't help.

Naturally cost of racing has gone up considerably but purses stay the same. Just some gripes I have with racing anymore. I still will go and watch them but I just wish us as fans were getting better bang for our buck.

I remember 10 years ago at lernerville any given Friday night there were at least 20 cars in each division. Now we are lucky to get 10 to 15 per.

Edited by lvillefan19, 13 June 2017 - 09:48 PM.

[Retort]

I read this same stuff 40 years ago.  Don't write about it, field a car.  Problem solved.

[K.H.]

Middle class wages are down and entertainment options have increased, simple as that.

[jo73]

To many rules. To many promotors that won't agree on a set of standard rules package. Lernerville's tire choice, few outsiders are going to come in there having to buy 4 new tires. The misconception crate racing saves money. ALL the parts in those late models and modifieds, you don't get a discount if you say well my late model is a crate. But, the purses for running a crate class is ridiculous. To many classes, a few guys approach a promotor and say we can bring 6 cars in and he says come on in. BUT, your not racing for a purse. I can't afford that. There is not a promotor out there that will take the chance of running a ALL crate show. The stands would be empty. Lazy track PR, the one thing the crate people do is promote there racing and they go out and get a ton of contingency sponsorship which at years end makes it look all worth it. You can't tell me a track can not go out and get these same suppliers to put up the some sort of package. Let's remember one thing. Be it whatever sanctioning crate organization you are following. The people behind it are making profits that would probably shock all of us. It's a business, a full time business, they don't do it for nothing. Maybe they should sponsor a car or better yet own or buy a race track and run a strictly crate program.

 

I have been to 3 different tracks here in the south. I can't find sh*t. They say a start time which means nothing to them because no one is in the stands. Track in GA. first LM heat never hit the track until 10:45. They only had 3 divisions.  They have 1 person at the pay window, 1 person doing food. They run crate shows. The stands have MAYBE 100, yes 100, people in them. It looks like a kart track back home. I drive to the bigger Lucas or WoO shows, or I head back up to western and central pa to see some racing 1 time a month.   

[sicario]

Too many options for classes and crappy payouts. You see tire rules on here all the time being the reason the blairs don't run lernerville, doesn't seem to hinder anyone else but it is a gripe for sure. The pot of local racers isn't growing by leaps and bounds, it probably stay just on the positivr side of neutral and everytime a new class pops up, there are drivers switching classes. So if you have 100 drivers spread over 5 classes, each time the classes rise, the same pot of 100 is spread even thinner. I have been pleased to see tracks adopting the Penn-Ohio stock series rules at their tracks for weekly divisions. That's a big plus and step in the right direction IMO. There aee also to many hands in the kitchen. The economodeconomics run at 3 regional tracks weekly and have done well count wise. One of those tracks called a meeting with the other two about overhauling the rules and both additional track refused to even consider because IT'S WORKING FINE! A small change here and there is fine but when you're getting cars I see no reason to blow up thr boat and syart building a new one just because you have an "idea". Continuity is important.

Edited by sicario, 14 June 2017 - 11:59 AM.

[honeybadger1]

The Penn Ohio series has a great model going right now.  You aren't pigeon holed into running a spec tire or other equipment.  They open up the rules to get as many cars as possible but don't let it get out of hand with guys trying to run 5 wide hubs, aluminum blocks, etc.  The latemodel stuff is just getting ridiculous.  You can't run with the top guys without your XR1 now.  If you want to run a super you got another 50K in a winning motor at least.

 

Run 4 classes; crate lates, open/crate stocks, crate mods, 4 cylinders --you would get a lot of cars out of this and it would draw a crowd.  And don't say "where's your headliner class of supers or 410's" .  I would rather watch side by side 4 cylinders with 20+ cars than watch 8 supers get strung out and follow the leader anyday

[MBRLLC]

The Penn Ohio series has a great model going right now.  You aren't pigeon holed into running a spec tire or other equipment.  They open up the rules to get as many cars as possible but don't let it get out of hand with guys trying to run 5 wide hubs, aluminum blocks, etc.  The latemodel stuff is just getting ridiculous.  You can't run with the top guys without your XR1 now.  If you want to run a super you got another 50K in a winning motor at least.
 
Run 4 classes; crate lates, open/crate stocks, crate mods, 4 cylinders --you would get a lot of cars out of this and it would draw a crowd.  And don't say "where's your headliner class of supers or 410's" .  I would rather watch side by side 4 cylinders with 20+ cars than watch 8 supers get strung out and follow the leader anyday

And you are probably 1 out of 10 people that will say that so there goes your crowd.

[sicario]

My ideal weekly classes start with sprints or supers and with as great as it would be to have both, it would be purse positive to only have one and run 4 divisions. I know it's the big draw for Lernerville having the big 3 but if they had supers or sprints, and replaced the other with say emods or another mid tier support class they could have a lot better payouts for the headliner. Honestly I hope this doesn't happen but they're my example because they run the classes they run and last I knew they had a $24,000 weekly purse fund so if you take a class that pays $1,200 & replace it with a class that pays $700-800 that could be split through other divisions or to pad the top 3-6 or 7 positions in the headliner. If say Sharon dropped Rush mods, allocated the emod purse from last year or whatever it is they're doing this year, and put stock payouts back in line with other tracks they should be able to reasonably field supers on their card. They could have supers, big blocks, economods, and stocks. That would be a pretty good card IMO. But atp Rush mods and stocks have their biggest fields most weeks so it's not in their best interests at the back gate to do that.

Edited by sicario, 14 June 2017 - 08:33 PM.

[94.3-RADRACER]

as for lernerville, some drivers hate the heavy track and slide job passing there anymore. tough on motors, and the top 5 will be the same top five with all there big bore stuff. there tire rule is the main problem.  alot more lm tracks out there than sprints........2 around here for sprints, 6 or so for lm's. we race stateline/eriez and they are the healthiest tracks around these parts. pay great, and just awesome quality of cars........and you can pass, with racy tracks..........don't need a wide bore motor to win.......those kind of tracks survive, and thrive........the other's, extinction....

[sicario]

Also, idk what the region wide payout is for point funds but last I knew it wasn't very high and if it doesn't lay much to race a track week to week and therr is basically next to no reward at the end of the year, nobody's going to consistently race that track. That, IMO, is a big reason not many people race for points anymore

[Hotrod98]

as for lernerville, some drivers hate the heavy track and slide job passing there anymore. tough on motors, and the top 5 will be the same top five with all there big bore stuff. there tire rule is the main problem.  alot more lm tracks out there than sprints........2 around here for sprints, 6 or so for lm's. we race stateline/eriez and they are the healthiest tracks around these parts. pay great, and just awesome quality of cars........and you can pass, with racy tracks..........don't need a wide bore motor to win.......those kind of tracks survive, and thrive........the other's, extinction....

heavy track? Lernerville probably has the worst track prep in PA. Terrible track tonight. So dusty from the first set of hot laps on. To the point, Many people left. The place is going down fast

[bhhracing]

They made it that way on purpose because they did not want to tear any cars up or the track for the firecracker Which is less than 6 days away. I guess you had your earplugs in when they announced that on the PA system. I wasn't happy with the track either but it is what it is especially with all the rain in the area they had it sealed tight just to be able to race in case they got a lot of rain.

[Hotrod98]

Just a question. Do you think car counts at Lernerville are due to 1. Crews and drivers always getting yelled at by Smokey? All you hear is " Let's go, or we will go without you. We aren't waiting" 2. Terrible track prep. It was so dusty from the first set off hot laps on tonight, that many people left.and most were first timers. Have to say, they won't be back and word of mouth will not do any good to get people there. 3. Nothing for the kids. What ever happened to kids Club? Now you can't even get on the Victory Lane for pics with family. What a joke! Then at the bus races/Enduro and bike races for the kids, it rained, and the kids that didn't get to race never did. Why couldn't they have did the last few before the Enduro. Oh, I forgot, the track had everyone's money already so what's it matter. Alot of parents were mad, and again probably won't be back. Don't blame them one bit. 4. No more free camping and get charged for quads Ect. Only track I know of that does that. GREED. Again, chasing fans away. Went to Port for the Weikert Memorial, we'll run show, awesome track, and rode the quad free of charge. There's a lot more that can be said, but what's it matter really? When it's to late it's to late. I over heard two older gentleman tonight saying that they really thought that Lernerville was gonna get turned around. And then the one gentleman stated that he has been going there for 30 plus years, and after tonight, he doubts he will be back. Point is the older generation are going away, and the younger generation has no reason to go. It's a shame.

[Cool1]

Exactly, very well put.

[sicario]

The dust wasn't bad by any means IMO. The track was pretty bad during the heats but it got much better from the Mod feature to the late feature. I assumed the conditions were on purpose to preserve the track as best they could for three nights of racing next week without having to take a week off like Sharon did this weekend in prep for Speedweeks on Tuesday... and so Stewart doesn't have a sh!tfit. Maybe next year Lernerville should cancel The weekend before the firecracker so they don't get flack on the message boards for having a slick crappy track... Instead they can get flack for passing on a great opportunity for a race just to save the track. As far as the camping and politics that are going on, yeah, paying for camping sucks if it is something that nobody else makes you do but this complaint has been going on for some time and it isn't going to change. I was cracking up at somebody being told that thy were "spinning their wheels" by putting things on seats to try to save them for the firecracker as those things would be thrown away and seats can't be reserved!!! all four times someone came on the PA to tell them this, it became more comical each time.

[jo73]

so what if your regulars were putting something on seats. people will be getting there Tuesday to camp. so it's ok for them ? or are track personnel going to toss seat savers every night ? new ownership always bring change eventually to any business, some are good, some not so good. didn't want to take the chance to prepare the track correctly because of the firecracker is zero excuse. in today's fight to get attendance that's the last thing you want. getting the equipment on track today would have sealed the track up in case of any storms coming threw before Thursday. as for the camping and 4 wheeler charges. baaa hum bug.

[D1RT]

Some of you whining vaginas won't be happy till every track in Western Pa. is closed. WRG could have said the hell with the racing history in Sarver, Pa. and probably sold that property for a whole lot more money to a developer.

Charging for camping, quads, etc......

How dare a track try and make some money to keep operating, help pay for damage and clean up from the campers and quads that some of the hogs leave behind, etc....

Unless you're handicapped, elderly, or have a medical condition there is no need for a quad other than laziness. Walking will do you some good. 

[FanJim24]

Can't win. If they keep the dust down the track is too heavy, there's only one groove and no racing, and it tears up equipment. If they prep the track to slick off, there's too much dust. Even when I have been highly critical of Lernerville the thing that stands out is that the track prep is outstanding. 

 

I was one of the one's who had to leave last night. My daughter was fighting allergies and the dust exacerbated them too much, but that probably would have been the case any night. 

 

The track had been more neglected than not since Helen Martin retired, and it's still one of the best tracks in the country. The Thomsons are investing back in, but there's a lot of work and money needed. 

 

Just my observations, they may or may not be accurate.