7 replies to this topic

[baldtireman]

Do local racers,racing for so-so purses, and few races,need  a track tire???  What's the benefit???

[jo73]

Only benefit from running a track tire is the promotor is getting a kick from the supplier. Having a track tire with speedway's struggling for car counts only limits were that competitor may race at. Sure most are only racing 1 night at week. But what if your rained out at your track that has a specific tire and you won't to go race. Are you going to buy new tires or burn off your track tire ? Personally I don't see the benefit in a track tire ?

[dirtstudent2]

I think kart racing has proved with either speck or open tire rules with proper preparing to include chemical prepping, there's something beyond having equally skilled drivers and the correct setup.  There are tire people out there who have the knowledge needed from study and experience to match what needs done to tires "with" picking the correct tire for track conditions.  The correct tire to mechanically and chemically prep may be brand new to a specific aged tire or used tire that you know what has previously been with it and to it.  In karting today keeping records or knowing exactly what has been done to each of your tires and being able to relate what has been done to current track conditions is as important as keeping setup records for tracks and track conditions.  It nets out to you can mechanically and chemically prep tires the same but if they are different brands under the same conditions they will preform differently.  In today's karting tire setup is as important as mechanical chassis setup.

 

I think the debate over weather speck tires verses open tires and their benefit to racers comes down to the haves verses the have not's. 

 

In the case of speck tires if you have deep pockets you can afford to throw on new tires as needed to be competitive.  Those without deep pockets running used tires will mostly be competitive late in a race or when deep pocket racers throw new tires at it when track conditions require used tires with less grip.

 

Open tires and the knowledge and skills needed to pick and prep the right tire are a whole different ball game in regards to actual benefits to racers.  Racing has always been about winning and what personalities get out of winning.  The only thing keeping those with deep pockets out of so, so payout racing is where they choose to cherry pick for a trophy and pats on the back to blow their ego's way beyond their skill level.

 

I think the debate is about if lesser funded racers would be able to have a better chance of winning with open tires verses speck tires.  I think the answer is yes because anytime you raise the skill, experience and knowledge bar, which having open tires does, it puts more racers with a chance to match up with those who have deep pockets.

 

Racers who have to run used tires will still have to run used tires.  But their chances of being able to compete with those of deep pockets because of skill and knowledge will have a chance to get better and it will help the racing fans in the stands pay to see.  Will over all cost of tires increase or not with an open tire rule, will still depend on who you ask and the accuracy of the answer you get.

 

Baldtireman heck yeah I'd like to see speck this and that about tires get dumped and tires be an open deal. 

 

edit:  Answering your question directly I don't see having a race track tire of any benefit to local racers.  I see it placing a higher cost on the chances of most racers to win.  A rock hard speck tire your not allowed to do anything to which is not going to happen is the only speck tire which could reduce tire cost to racers and close some the chance of winning gap between the haves and have not's.  

 

.  

 

I see track tires as screwing racers not letting the best tire for the race be used.  It takes away all competition between tire companies to give anything to racers for their business because it makes them only need to sell the benefits of their product to tracks and promoters.   The ONLY thing racers get from tire companies is enough bull to make them think using the tire sold to tracks and promoters is good enough to keep them from bitching too much.  If Hoosier tires are required on every sprint car then all of anything Hoosier says about how good they may be is just lip service to keep racers quiet and under the control of tracks and promoters.  They may be the greatest tire in the world or the worst but if that's all sprint cars can use any promotion is not aimed at selling racers tires, it's aimed at being able to continue to force their product onto sprint car rims.  

 

I think it boils down to:  Racers who have to run used tires will still have to run used tires.  But their chances of being able to compete with those of deep pockets because of skill and knowledge will have a chance to get better with open tires. Will over all cost of tires increase or not with an open tire rule, will still depend on who you ask and the accuracy of the answer you get.  And It will shift some promotional dollars spent by tire manufactures from tracks and promoters to racers and that has to help racers.  But if the shift of dollars to racers betters the show seen by fans, it may not hurt tracks but likely will hurt speck parts pushers and series promoters.

 

I have a question. 

 

What brand and type of tire gets sold the most in tire shops?  Is it the tire most promoted to the public or the tire when sold has the most benefit to the tire shop?  I think your answer will be what gets sold most depends on both with leaning of tire shop sales towards what returns the highest profit.  And which ever tire sold will need to be reliable enough no matter what the price, to warrant customers to return and buy again from you.  

 

In the case of the controlled customer base of racing it's not a matter of both because tire companies have no need to market to racers.  I think in the case of racing what tire gets sold the most and in the case of winged sprints the only tire sold is totally controlled by marketing to tracks and promoters.  The racer be damned so long as you can push a great enough number of them through the back gate.  How the quality of what comes through the back gate hurts front gate sales is a whole different subject.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 17 November 2017 - 11:32 AM.

[TCM29]

I think kart racing has proved with either speck or open tire rules with proper preparing to include chemical prepping, there's something beyond having equally skilled drivers and the correct setup.  There are tire people out there who have the knowledge needed from study and experience to match what needs done to tires "with" picking the correct tire for track conditions.  The correct tire to mechanically and chemically prep may be brand new to a specific aged tire or used tire that you know what has previously been with it and to it.  In karting today keeping records or knowing exactly what has been done to each of your tires and being able to relate what has been done to current track conditions is as important as keeping setup records for tracks and track conditions.  It nets out to you can mechanically and chemically prep tires the same but if they are different brands under the same conditions they will preform differently.  In today's karting tire setup is as important as mechanical chassis setup.

 

I think the debate over weather speck tires verses open tires and their benefit to racers comes down to the haves verses the have not's. 

 

In the case of speck tires if you have deep pockets you can afford to throw on new tires as needed to be competitive.  Those without deep pockets running used tires will mostly be competitive late in a race or when deep pocket racers throw new tires at it when track conditions require used tires with less grip.

 

Open tires and the knowledge and skills needed to pick and prep the right tire are a whole different ball game in regards to actual benefits to racers.  Racing has always been about winning and what personalities get out of winning.  The only thing keeping those with deep pockets out of so, so payout racing is where they choose to cherry pick for a trophy and pats on the back to blow their ego's way beyond their skill level.

 

I think the debate is about if lesser funded racers would be able to have a better chance of winning with open tires verses speck tires.  I think the answer is yes because anytime you raise the skill, experience and knowledge bar, which having open tires does, it puts more racers with a chance to match up with those who have deep pockets.

 

Racers who have to run used tires will still have to run used tires.  But their chances of being able to compete with those of deep pockets because of skill and knowledge will have a chance to get better and it will help the racing fans in the stands pay to see.  Will over all cost of tires increase or not with an open tire rule, will still depend on who you ask and the accuracy of the answer you get.

 

Baldtireman heck yeah I'd like to see speck this and that about tires get dumped and tires be an open deal. 

 

edit:  Answering your question directly I don't see having a race track tire of any benefit to local racers.  I see it placing a higher cost on the chances of most racers to win.  A rock hard speck tire your not allowed to do anything to which is not going to happen is the only speck tire which could reduce tire cost to racers and close some the chance of winning gap between the haves and have not's.  

 

.  

 

I see track tires as screwing racers not letting the best tire for the race be used.  It takes away all competition between tire companies to give anything to racers for their business because it makes them only need to sell the benefits of their product to tracks and promoters.   The ONLY thing racers get from tire companies is enough bull to make them think using the tire sold to tracks and promoters is good enough to keep them from bitching too much.  If Hoosier tires are required on every sprint car then all of anything Hoosier says about how good they may be is just lip service to keep racers quiet and under the control of tracks and promoters.  They may be the greatest tire in the world or the worst but if that's all sprint cars can use any promotion is not aimed at selling racers tires, it's aimed at being able to continue to force their product onto sprint car rims.  

 

I think it boils down to:  Racers who have to run used tires will still have to run used tires.  But their chances of being able to compete with those of deep pockets because of skill and knowledge will have a chance to get better with open tires. Will over all cost of tires increase or not with an open tire rule, will still depend on who you ask and the accuracy of the answer you get.  And It will shift some promotional dollars spent by tire manufactures from tracks and promoters to racers and that has to help racers.  But if the shift of dollars to racers betters the show seen by fans, it may not hurt tracks but likely will hurt speck parts pushers and series promoters.

 

I have a question. 

 

What brand and type of tire gets sold the most in tire shops?  Is it the tire most promoted to the public or the tire when sold has the most benefit to the tire shop?  I think your answer will be what gets sold most depends on both with leaning of tire shop sales towards what returns the highest profit.  And which ever tire sold will need to be reliable enough no matter what the price, to warrant customers to return and buy again from you.  

 

In the case of the controlled customer base of racing it's not a matter of both because tire companies have no need to market to racers.  I think in the case of racing what tire gets sold the most and in the case of winged sprints the only tire sold is totally controlled by marketing to tracks and promoters.  The racer be damned so long as you can push a great enough number of them through the back gate.  How the quality of what comes through the back gate hurts front gate sales is a whole different subject.

Nice to see karting mentioned these days, and given the lack of a moving suspension, and aside from static weight, that's all we had to work with. Speaking from the past (1996-2003) the right "prep" was essential to being competitive on the northern clay tracks, while the southern tracks called for a harder compound than pavement- really. On FL "dirt" a cord worn Maxxis would be the tire of choice,or anything that spiked +100...We experimented with a lot of stuff, some worked, some didn't. Sadly, an acquaintance of ours was severely burned at a track while prepping tires. Some prepped from the inside out, the others outside in....before the commercial prep was available creosote was used, despite being banned from sale many years before. All in all, most substances soften, even WD 40 which proved itself when last year I sprayed our bicycles with it to protect from salt air at our beach house- when my son (driver) went to use them the rubber grips turned to goo! We used to mix Xylene and Toluene together for a prep we called "X-tol", now, I need to figure out a use for that third thumb.........

[jo73]

LOL. YA if guys want to see what the good shit is just go ask a guy from karting.  Creosote was the hot stuff. If your supply out lasted others everybody was blowing the whistle on you.

[zero hero2]

The only thing i don't agree with on a tire rule is the price difference in a spec tire being more than the open tire . 

[jo73]

The only thing i don't agree with on a tire rule is the price difference in a spec tire being more than the open tire . 

 

How do you think the promotor gets his FAIR share ?  

[zero hero2]

 

How do you think the promotor gets his FAIR share ?  

Well Mr Obvious ! I am well aware that is why the tires are a different price . Maybe the promoters should work on having a better and more timely show that the fans would love to support . That would build the crowd and drivers support . Not the old tire rule and pit licensing crap !!