Just my 2 cents worth on it with WRP and Findlay going to Hoosiers and Lima and Eldora running Stock D.O.T. radial passenger tires . I think that some people wont be able to have 2 different sets of tires. With lima and eldora having run these tires for yrs . Is it gonna cause less cars from Lima and eldora to run at Wrp and findlay? If they buy used hoosiers and some running new ones will they have a advantage? With Lima being the smaller track in size the stock D.O.T. dont tear up their track . My point is i would like to see some good car counts (stocks) at WRP since they have been given the chance to come back will running a different tire hurt some of the teams and change their minds on where to run. The trucks who run fremont have been on hoosiers for a while i dont see them changing. This is just my 2 cents on it, i dont have any thing in it but just want to see some decent counts. Is it gonna stretch out the amount of stock cars to thin?
Hoosiers on stocks at WRP and Findlay
Started by skip, Mar 21 2011 06:28 PM
41 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 21 March 2011 - 06:28 PM
skip
#2
Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:51 PM
Just my 2 cents worth on it with WRP and Findlay going to Hoosiers and Lima and Eldora running Stock D.O.T. radial passenger tires . I think that some people wont be able to have 2 different sets of tires. With lima and eldora having run these tires for yrs . Is it gonna cause less cars from Lima and eldora to run at Wrp and findlay? If they buy used hoosiers and some running new ones will they have a advantage? With Lima being the smaller track in size the stock D.O.T. dont tear up their track . My point is i would like to see some good car counts (stocks) at WRP since they have been given the chance to come back will running a different tire hurt some of the teams and change their minds on where to run. The trucks who run fremont have been on hoosiers for a while i dont see them changing. This is just my 2 cents on it, i dont have any thing in it but just want to see some decent counts. Is it gonna stretch out the amount of stock cars to thin?
The stock meeting for waynesfield had approximately 20 guys there. All but two wanted the Hoosiers. Hoosiers are cheaper, and last longer. The high HP motors nowadays chunk up the DOT tires. The stiff sidewalls DO tear up tracks (yes, even lima). DOT's or hoosiers, new tires will always be faster....and again the Hoosiers are cheaper, and from what I've seen last longer. I'd expect to gain a few cars from Montpelier with the tire change to Waynesfield too...some of the guys live closer to the field, and drive to Montpelier to run Hoosiers. I USED to think that the DOT tires keep some of the bigger horsepower in check (to a degree) with the lesser budget cars, but I now feel differently. Hoosiers will make everyone faster, including the mid to back pack guys. I watched a mid pack car bolt on hoosiers, and run right to the top five on used rubber. I have hear numerous times that recaps are being run in stocks, with duros punching as low as the 30's. If people wish to wear out tires that fast, they can put D-40's on and have at it.
These are race cars, give us race tires. If you want to run DOT tires, get a compact.
#3
Posted 21 March 2011 - 08:05 PM
Very good views i knew any driver would know more than me if that many drivers showed up and voiced their opinions at the meeting maybe im wrong, If those 20 drivers show up that would be great. just want to see a good showing for the stocks. Thanks Dirtracer48
Edited by skip, 21 March 2011 - 08:35 PM.
skip
#4
Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:17 PM
The stock meeting for waynesfield had approximately 20 guys there. All but two wanted the Hoosiers. Hoosiers are cheaper, and last longer. The high HP motors nowadays chunk up the DOT tires. The stiff sidewalls DO tear up tracks (yes, even lima). DOT's or hoosiers, new tires will always be faster....and again the Hoosiers are cheaper, and from what I've seen last longer. I'd expect to gain a few cars from Montpelier with the tire change to Waynesfield too...some of the guys live closer to the field, and drive to Montpelier to run Hoosiers. I USED to think that the DOT tires keep some of the bigger horsepower in check (to a degree) with the lesser budget cars, but I now feel differently. Hoosiers will make everyone faster, including the mid to back pack guys. I watched a mid pack car bolt on hoosiers, and run right to the top five on used rubber. I have hear numerous times that recaps are being run in stocks, with duros punching as low as the 30's. If people wish to wear out tires that fast, they can put D-40's on and have at it.
These are race cars, give us race tires. If you want to run DOT tires, get a compact.
I just couldn't let this go.
DOT tires cost roughly $70 on a good day
Hoosier tires cost roughly $120 on a good day
now forgive if my math is wrong but Hoosiers do cost $50 more than DOT
I also think that a DOT will outlast a Hoosier by a far site. The people with the money will buy new hoosiers every 6-8 races to keep max grip. in the DOT tire buying new that often did not help so noone did it. cutting down on the cost by a bunch. as for the recap, if someone would actually look at the cars before they race they would catch this
#5
Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:19 PM
These are race cars, give us race tires. If you want to run DOT tires, get a compact.
If you want hoosiers race a Modified
#6
Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:05 PM
If you want hoosiers race a Modified
Sorta like if you want to race D.O.T. tires drive on the street !!!
#7
Posted 23 March 2011 - 06:55 PM
I just couldn't let this go.
DOT tires cost roughly $70 on a good day
Hoosier tires cost roughly $120 on a good day
now forgive if my math is wrong but Hoosiers do cost $50 more than DOT
I also think that a DOT will outlast a Hoosier by a far site. The people with the money will buy new hoosiers every 6-8 races to keep max grip. in the DOT tire buying new that often did not help so noone did it. cutting down on the cost by a bunch. as for the recap, if someone would actually look at the cars before they race they would catch this
"People with money" will put new tires on every time no matter what the tire rules are, and a brand new tire of any type is going to be better than the same tire used.
Show me a mastercraft 235/70/15 new for 70 bucks. Hell, show me one for under 100. A friend of mine is a cooper employee, and with his employee discount cannot get that price (even at the place a racer told us to go - we called, they said someone is blowing smoke up our ass). Hoosier UMP tires are a 110 a copy from my understanding. I just bought 9 decent used ones for 200 bucks. A lot of the mod guys give away, or throw away used tires. A grinder will renew them for several more nights, when those are worn out then I'd buy more used. The only time I'd consider buying new is if I were competitive with the whole field, and starting up front.
The 4cylinder trucks run the hoosiers, and you don't hear them complain. If you're so happy with your DOT tires, you're still welcome to run them.
#8
Posted 23 March 2011 - 07:24 PM
call triple R tire in stmarys or wapak."People with money" will put new tires on every time no matter what the tire rules are, and a brand new tire of any type is going to be better than the same tire used.
Show me a mastercraft 235/70/15 new for 70 bucks. Hell, show me one for under 100. A friend of mine is a cooper employee, and with his employee discount cannot get that price (even at the place a racer told us to go - we called, they said someone is blowing smoke up our ass). Hoosier UMP tires are a 110 a copy from my understanding. I just bought 9 decent used ones for 200 bucks. A lot of the mod guys give away, or throw away used tires. A grinder will renew them for several more nights, when those are worn out then I'd buy more used. The only time I'd consider buying new is if I were competitive with the whole field, and starting up front.
The 4cylinder trucks run the hoosiers, and you don't hear them complain. If you're so happy with your DOT tires, you're still welcome to run them.
#9
Posted 23 March 2011 - 09:34 PM
"People with money" will put new tires on every time no matter what the tire rules are, and a brand new tire of any type is going to be better than the same tire used.
Show me a mastercraft 235/70/15 new for 70 bucks. Hell, show me one for under 100. A friend of mine is a cooper employee, and with his employee discount cannot get that price (even at the place a racer told us to go - we called, they said someone is blowing smoke up our ass). Hoosier UMP tires are a 110 a copy from my understanding. I just bought 9 decent used ones for 200 bucks. A lot of the mod guys give away, or throw away used tires. A grinder will renew them for several more nights, when those are worn out then I'd buy more used. The only time I'd consider buying new is if I were competitive with the whole field, and starting up front.
The 4cylinder trucks run the hoosiers, and you don't hear them complain. If you're so happy with your DOT tires, you're still welcome to run them.
anytime you want to order new mastercrafts give me a call at the shop they are about 76.00 567-712-4192
#10
Posted 23 March 2011 - 10:28 PM
"People with money" will put new tires on every time no matter what the tire rules are, and a brand new tire of any type is going to be better than the same tire used.
The only time I'd consider buying new is if I were competitive with the whole field, and starting up front.
high lighting a couple of things from Tim's statement...what amazes me most is we as racers vote on things that let our class get out of hand cost wise. it usually starts with guys who maybe arent as competitive as some of the others voting on things that they think will make them run with the fast guys not realizing its only going to make the fast guys faster. take the tires for instance the guys who want to run used hoosiers because they can run them and feel they will be more competitive with the fast guys now not realizing the fast guys are going to run new tires and be faster anyhow, so how did they gain an advantage. i was at the meeting years ago when we voted on the holley 4412 and guys were complaing that the fast guys with money were running the c&s rochester 2 barrel and they just couldnt afford the same carb and compete so they voted the holley in so they could take an out of the box 4412 and be competitive all that did was open it up for the guys with the money to buy the big holley carbs everyone is running now, nothing gained in my opinion but cost. Tim said it best he would only buy a new hoosier if he were competitive or starting up front so u have taken the cost of a dot at 76.00 and raised the cost 110.00 for a new hoosier. why not buy the new dot to start with. if your chunking out tires it might have something to do with your set up.
guys have been talking about 4 barrels on the stock cars and i dont understand that. lets face it there isnt much seperating a stock car chassis from a modified one now. the real difference is tires, carb and maybe heads. guys are spending big money on the brezinski intake and good heads and im sure there are probably some stock cars with aluminum heads on them. if you want to run hoosiers and 4 barrels then step up a class and run a modified. everyone built a stock car or bought one knowing what the rules were when they started if you dont like or didnt like them why run the class. why run the class then bitch until you get the rules and cost out of hand. we are ruining our own class car count is down and cost is out of hand.
last but not least im not sure why the guys who want hoosiers wont run Lima and Eldora they are top notch facilities with some of the best drivers and cars that there are in the state. the purse is good the points fund, banquets and trophys are about the best anywhere. WRP is a nice track and im planning on running every weekend but all that happened at that meeting was raise my cost with having to have 2 sets of tires to run. i dont know how many guys who want to be competitive at WRP that run Lima and Eldora will have the money to buy 6 or 8 more wheels and tires to race there. only time will tell if the tires will help build the class or hurt it
#11
Posted 23 March 2011 - 10:52 PM
Might take you up on that Keith....that is a good price. Indifferent to the LMP/Eldora cars....Millstream is mixing their division with the fremont trucks, which run an open 8" dirt tire. The hoosiers bring the stocks neck and neck on competitiveness. Waynesfield....their trucks (a division under), run the hoosiers....I've not heard any complaints.
Many of the Lima guys go elsewhere and run dirt tires. Anderson, Koz, Babcock, Tieman, Kepling, Gazarek....Gossard will at Findlay I am sure. I saw Gazarek win a STACKED heat at fremont, I think it was the same night Kepling finished third in the A. I am sure I am forgetting a lot of others, and guarantee more will follow. I promise you myself, and my friends aren't among the big budget guys, but I know they've all ran both and strongly prefer the hoosier.
What's my point? I don't know....maybe I will end up being wrong, I will let you tell me you told me so. Good luck everyone.....
#12
Posted 23 March 2011 - 11:19 PM
Might take you up on that Keith....that is a good price. Indifferent to the LMP/Eldora cars....Millstream is mixing their division with the fremont trucks, which run an open 8" dirt tire. The hoosiers bring the stocks neck and neck on competitiveness. Waynesfield....their trucks (a division under), run the hoosiers....I've not heard any complaints.
Many of the Lima guys go elsewhere and run dirt tires. Anderson, Koz, Babcock, Tieman, Kepling, Gazarek....Gossard will at Findlay I am sure. I saw Gazarek win a STACKED heat at fremont, I think it was the same night Kepling finished third in the A. I am sure I am forgetting a lot of others, and guarantee more will follow. I promise you myself, and my friends aren't among the big budget guys, but I know they've all ran both and strongly prefer the hoosier.
What's my point? I don't know....maybe I will end up being wrong, I will let you tell me you told me so. Good luck everyone.....
koz, babcock, and tieman all ran eldora til the end of the season. all im saying is i want 2 run at lima ,wrp and eldora and some millstream without having to have all the tires. stop by the shop and i would be glad to show you my tire bill and i am starting the season with the same 8 dot tires i ran last yr never chunked a tire. ran the same right rear at lima til i cut it down when i got tangled with bowen and ran the same right rear at eldora all season. going to grind on them and run them again. i know for a fact barney is doing the same. it takes more work to get your car to handle on dots but thats half the fun. as racers we are letting this class get out of hand.its happened for years and years. the class starts out as bombers- thunders cars- pure stocks whatever you want to call them and guys vote for rule changes til the class is what is today or as it has been know in the past hobby stocks -street stocks. if lima and eldora killed this class tomorrow and started a pure stock class again you could set your chassis back and within a few years it would be legal again. its happened time and time again. we ruin our own class guys complain vote for rule change after rule change til cost gets out of control car count dwindles and the class dies or they start a new one. we have rules lets leave them alone and race with in them or soon we wont have a class.
#13
Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:42 AM
This is why i started this post when you have two guys who have a good constructive conversation with out some one trashing one another. This is what its about two guys with a good discussion thank you both. I hope some just listen to this, its what racing is about. This is a good competitive way of trashing pros and cons from both sides.
skip
#14
Posted 24 March 2011 - 06:51 PM
No rule, or rule change is going to please everyone. I personally don't see any reasons for me personally to want to stay on DOT tires. These cars have been mods with fenders for 15 years now. Is the cost of the class out of hand? Of course it is....it's been that way for a longggg time.
Maybe we can invent the tire claim rule.
#15
Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:36 AM
Just my 2 cents. If you have 10 to 15,000 invested in a motor, 2,000 in a rear end, and you have sponsors, what is the problem with Hoosier tires. After all it is a race car. But none of them are stock and that's a fact.
#16
Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:51 AM
Just my 2 cents. If you have 10 to 15,000 invested in a motor, 2,000 in a rear end, and you have sponsors, what is the problem with Hoosier tires. After all it is a race car. But none of them are stock and that's a fact.
i dont have anything close to that kind of money invested in my motor or my rearend....if i wanted to invest that kind of money i would buy a modified and run hoosiers.
#17
Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:27 PM
Some one once said to quote Harry Hogg "There's nothin stock about a stock car". is the class out of hand,of coarse it is,is it ever going to change,of coarse not. DOT tires rut up a well preped track,Hoosiers make a car handle so much better. better handling means better driving and less wrecks and torn up race cars,meaning less money out of pocket to fix it. Tim knows for years,I have fought to keep the class as even as possible,to no evail. That's why I got out of the sport for a few years. God knows I made my share of enemys with my mouth about changes to the class years ago, thats why I moved to the modified class,i don't run near as fast,but on any given night I have a ball without my car getting to tore up. Everybody has there opinion,and make great points. All i know is if I still had a Stockcar I would not hesitate to put on the hoosiers and if nothing else have a better handling car that is a whole lot more fun to drive. Good luck to Everyone this year.
#18
Posted 25 March 2011 - 06:39 PM
Just my 2 cents. If you have 10 to 15,000 invested in a motor, 2,000 in a rear end, and you have sponsors, what is the problem with Hoosier tires. After all it is a race car. But none of them are stock and that's a fact.
Don't forget about the $1400 legal bert transmissions. Keith, you said yourself after the meeting that you'll be bolting on two fresh hoosiers for every A.....I can't afford to do that, and if your calculations are right you should be a top 2 car about every night. Anderson doesn't even do that.
PS, I bought a new optima battery last night if anyone wants to pitch a bitch about that too.
Racing is life did it right - if you don't like the rules, pack up your gear and go elsewhere.
I guess I just don't understand the point of arguing after the fact is all. I'll be on used rubber, and past history shows I suck in a race car anyway....so I am just debating for the fun of the discussion. Good luck to everyone this year.
PS, Keith...it doesn't matter what the sum of parts in the car is, yours is a rocket proving hard work gets ya to the front.
#19
Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:28 PM
Tim, Ive seen ya race,and Iv'e raced right along side of you. You don't suck as a driver,your just a victim of the very thing in which this topic is about. Under funding VS. Over funding. It's great to go out,race and have fun doing something you love to do. But opening up my wallet every week to run up front to boost my ego is not my idea of fun. That's why i was always a mid pack car. it happens from front wheel compacts to Nascar,someone is alway going to put as much as they can into it,and rule there division. great drivers are hard to come by,great equipment only takes money!Don't forget about the $1400 legal bert transmissions. Keith, you said yourself after the meeting that you'll be bolting on two fresh hoosiers for every A.....I can't afford to do that, and if your calculations are right you should be a top 2 car about every night. Anderson doesn't even do that.
PS, I bought a new optima battery last night if anyone wants to pitch a bitch about that too.
Racing is life did it right - if you don't like the rules, pack up your gear and go elsewhere.
I guess I just don't understand the point of arguing after the fact is all. I'll be on used rubber, and past history shows I suck in a race car anyway....so I am just debating for the fun of the discussion. Good luck to everyone this year.
PS, Keith...it doesn't matter what the sum of parts in the car is, yours is a rocket proving hard work gets ya to the front.
#20
Posted 25 March 2011 - 08:50 PM
Some one once said to quote Harry Hogg "There's nothin stock about a stock car". is the class out of hand,of coarse it is,is it ever going to change,of coarse not. DOT tires rut up a well preped track,Hoosiers make a car handle so much better. better handling means better driving and less wrecks and torn up race cars,meaning less money out of pocket to fix it. Tim knows for years,I have fought to keep the class as even as possible,to no evail. That's why I got out of the sport for a few years. God knows I made my share of enemys with my mouth about changes to the class years ago, thats why I moved to the modified class,i don't run near as fast,but on any given night I have a ball without my car getting to tore up. Everybody has there opinion,and make great points. All i know is if I still had a Stockcar I would not hesitate to put on the hoosiers and if nothing else have a better handling car that is a whole lot more fun to drive. Good luck to Everyone this year.
i dont believe dot tires rut up a track as much as people say but everyone has an opinon. i believe its the tires that dig and hook up that tear up a track. the last race at eldora last yr the latemodels hot lapped and qualified before we even hot lapped and the track was the worst ive ever been on it was rough and rutted up but was prepped well and looked great when we arrived that day. ive been on the track after sprint cars hot lapped and qualified and the track was terrible. i think its the cars running softer tires rolling over and hooking up that tear up the surface as much if not more than stock cars. to me it only makes sense that the guys who are hooking up and digging in that tear up a track. i believe the sprint cars or latemodels and even the modifieds dictate where the groove or the cushion is by the end of the night. maybe im wrong.
all race tracks post there rules for each class and if a guy doesnt like the rules for a paticular class then he shouldnt buy or build a car for that class. i applaud lima for sticking by their rules. ive had to change things on my car after going thru inspection like pulling my body in closer or putting an inspection panel in. the point is i bought my car with the rules in place that i thought i could live by and afford and you have guys who come in and want to change them because they think they can save money by buying used tires and be more competitive. if a used tire was as good as a new one the modified guys wouldnt be putting new ones on all the time. it comes down to the cost of a new dot vs a new hoosier and how long they last. ive ran both classes over the years and ran up front in both. my stock car handles great so i cant complain about tires. it doesnt matter if you drive a sprint car , latemodel, modified, 4cyl truck, or stock car if you dont have the right set up on it its not going to handle. if the tire was the cure all everybody would be fast and competitive.
ive heard guys talking they wanted 4 barrels on the stock cars because the indiana boys get to run them and wauseon runs them. we have 2 good tracks right here in our own backyard with the same rules (lima and eldora) couldve been 3 with WRP why would guys want to change them to haul further for less money. only reason i can think of is the level of competition isnt as tough. eldora is closer than montpelier but guys tow further for less. we went to montpelier once last yr and ran 4th on dot tires and won a hundred dollars didnt pay for the gas in the truck and car. i think they had 12 cars that night and they run on saturdays so WRP i dont believe will pull many cars from there.
i get tired of hearing about limaland officials as a reason not to run lima. ive been mad about some of the calls they have made or making me change a body panel when thats not what makes a car fast. if you truly want to race at a great facility against the best competition there is close to home who cares who is in charge. follow the rules and race. i dont no about anyone else but in my opinion a win isnt a real win unless you beat the best and i believe some of the very best run lima and eldora. lima had 8 different winners last year in the stock car class.
i want to run WRP every wknd because its close to home and now if i really want to win ive got to buy 6 or 8 hoosier tires just another expense. how many other teams will be able to afford to have 2 sets of tires. i was excited when i first heard WRP was putting stocks back on the schedule because i could run friday night at lima and saturday night at WRP and not have to change a gear or nothing, not to mention its 10 miles away.
im not trying to bash anyone here just trying to give some of my opinions or some food for thought. i dont voice my opinion on here often but the tires are just another expense we couldve done without. the thing i enjoy most about racing is the comrodery and friends that ive built over the years. fact is we all work hard on our cars all week and dont do this for the money. i enjoy the discussions and like to help anyone in anyway possible. i dont want to see our class flourish not die off. there has been several great points of view posted here and ive had fun with this discussion.
Tim if you get a chance stop by the shop sometime. i might add your car looks great like the pix on facebook. the fact is i probably run with a lot less money than most. ill be starting the year with the same body, same tires same everything. car is sitting in the shop just as it came off the track last year. other than repacking wheel bearings and going over everything i spent no money this winter. my 383 is for sale so i can finish my new motor, nothing wrong with it just dont think its big enough. i ran up front with it and its got all good stuff inside. will be putting it in last minute for eldora if i dont sell it. ill be running wrp with d.o.t.s unless some more funds come thru. hope everyone has a great year
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