American Racer isn't the small dog people make them out to be. They have the AR cup for Mods & have 15 tracks that are basically all AR. Delaware Intl, Bridgeport, New Egypt, Grandview, Big Diamnond, Penn Cann, 5 Mile Point, Accord, Fulton, Brewerton, Uttica Rome and a few I am missing.
goodyear is out of world of outlaws at end of 2012
Started by don71, Aug 14 2012 10:28 AM
40 replies to this topic
#21
Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:39 AM
#22
Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:55 AM
American Racer isn't the small dog people make them out to be. They have the AR cup for Mods & have 15 tracks that are basically all AR. Delaware Intl, Bridgeport, New Egypt, Grandview, Big Diamnond, Penn Cann, 5 Mile Point, Accord, Fulton, Brewerton, Uttica Rome and a few I am missing.
The ROC mod series is AR too.
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#23
Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:39 AM
Well let's see...Track makes money on Tire sales, Membership's, B-mains to cut 1 god dam car, $30 dollar pit passes for my crew & to top it all off, they cut the purse this year!!! Just a few reasons LOLHow is that?
#24
Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:57 AM
Well let's see...Track makes money on Tire sales, Membership's, B-mains to cut 1 god dam car, $30 dollar pit passes for my crew & to top it all off, they cut the purse this year!!! Just a few reasons LOL
Don't they pay a point fund from that money?
Don't they provide an insurance policy and pay a point fund with the membership?
Ya got me on the B main
Isn't it $30 non member? Are you a member or not?
Cut the purse? Did you ever think they raised the purse to attract more cars and people, and when that didn't happen, they put it back to where it was?
LOL
JMO
#25
Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:14 PM
They never raised the purse!! All they did was start 20 instead of 24....now the purse is even lower and they still only start 20!! They keep raping the racers to grease their pockets...spin it how ever you want pal...good dayDon't they pay a point fund from that money?
Don't they provide an insurance policy and pay a point fund with the membership?
Ya got me on the B main
Isn't it $30 non member? Are you a member or not?
Cut the purse? Did you ever think they raised the purse to attract more cars and people, and when that didn't happen, they put it back to where it was?
LOL
JMO
Edited by Brian Hutchison, 15 August 2012 - 12:20 PM.
#26
Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:04 PM
He has a point, Look back 15 years ago they pay the same then as the do now and cost have gone up. I dont have the answers but we ALL have OPINIONS!. Also just to state a fact I'm not for tire rules! If there is a tire rule wouldnt be a lot easier for that tire company to raise the price of there tires?They never raised the purse!! All they did was start 20 instead of 24....now the purse is even lower and they still only start 20!! They keep raping the racers to grease their pockets...spin it how ever you want pal...good day
Lernerville is the most profitable tracks around, hands down. Yes they do run Sprints, Lates, Mods, And Stocks but really look at how many people are in the stands and how much beer is sold. My point is, they could shut down any track around on a friday but raising the purse and it wouldnt hurt there pockets.
Wagner Racing #38
#27
Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:08 PM
"...grease their pockets..."They never raised the purse!! All they did was start 20 instead of 24....now the purse is even lower and they still only start 20!! They keep raping the racers to grease their pockets...spin it how ever you want pal...good day
The discussion is about tires, Suckison, not what happens when you play pocket pool.
If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just suck.
#28
Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:49 PM
I'm well aware of what tracks and series' use AR tires. My point is, they are still not as big as Hoosier. The tracks that AR services and the RoC series' are strictly north eastern ventures, whereas the WoO Sprints are nationwide. Will AR be able to service them as well as Hoosier? Like I said, I'll believe when and if I see it.
#29
Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:05 PM
$120 right rear? when? What division?You are so right! I raced with open tire rules. Early on we sucked. As we became better the tire companies came to us with 1/2 price deals. This meant the ones paying for the tires are the ones that were not as competitive. We also tested new compounds, sidewalls, and tread designs. This made us even better. Tire prices jumped 30% because of the tech cost. Tire wear was cut in half. In the mid 80's a right rear was $190. There was so many compounds and designs, that worked differently at different tracks. We had to have 35 - 40 tires mounted(cost of 40 wheels also) to race three nights a week.
Without a tire rule you will see speeds increase and wear decrease.
The tire rule came around and our tire bill went in half. We now needed 10 tires mounted with a RR at $120.00.
Oh yes tire rules are needed to keep the price down and keep the competition even.
Anyone who says different, hasn't lived it.
JMO
#30
Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:17 PM
The tire rule came around and our tire bill went in half. We now needed 10 tires mounted with a RR at $120.00.
Oh yes tire rules are needed to keep the price down and keep the competition even.
Anyone who says different, hasn't lived it.
JMO
Like back in the open tire late model days when drivers/teams had tire racks as long as their haulers carrying many compounds, sizes, and staggers by two or three manufactures.
Should be open to all manufactures with limited compounds and sizes.........
#31
Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:28 PM
Like back in the open tire late model days when drivers/teams had tire racks as long as their haulers carrying many compounds, sizes, and staggers by two or three manufactures.
Should be open to all manufactures with limited compounds and sizes.........
That last sentence is gold. The only ones that make money off of brand tire rules are the tracks and tire companies, or they wouldn't do it. That's fine, as it is. I just wish the tracks would be honest about it.
These brand rules force some pretty good shoes to avoid Lernerville. I know. I've talked to some of them, many who say they like racing there, but their budget and principles won't allow them to buy tires that they most likely will only run there, especially if they are on an AR deal. So, then, the fans lose out in that instance.
I hate rules that attempt to save racers from themselves because they simply do not work. The money "saved" by any rules designed to do as much will be spent, by those that have money to burn, elsewhere on the car. I got a buddy that's been involved in the game for close to forty years, and he'll show you shelves of perfectly good, bought and paid for parts that he was forced to remove and replace from his cars because of rules designed to save him money. Pretzel logic? You bet.
I also remember the days of haulers that looked like a tire store. Again, whose fault is it? If you were one of the teams that felt compelled to mount up 40 tires per night, could you afford it? If not, why did you do it? And the "little guy" argument doesn't hold much water when you consider the fact that most of the back markers were running before and during tire rule eras. And still are. Many of these teams run in the upper classes with outdated equipment because many nights they make money doing it. They could care less about the cost of new tires because they aren't going to buy them anyway.
#32
Posted 16 August 2012 - 08:25 AM
$120 right rear? when? What division?
Big Block mod's.
#33
Posted 16 August 2012 - 08:51 AM
He has a point, Look back 15 years ago they pay the same then as the do now and cost have gone up. I dont have the answers but we ALL have OPINIONS!. Also just to state a fact I'm not for tire rules! If there is a tire rule wouldnt be a lot easier for that tire company to raise the price of there tires?
Lernerville is the most profitable tracks around, hands down. Yes they do run Sprints, Lates, Mods, And Stocks but really look at how many people are in the stands and how much beer is sold. My point is, they could shut down any track around on a friday but raising the purse and it wouldnt hurt there pockets.
Actually, it is cheaper to produce tires for tire rules. The tire company has to produce less models and sizes, so their inventory is lower. Also because they don't have to compete against other tire companies, their engineering cost are lower. The tire does not have to be the fastest, just durable, hence thicker side walls.
With an open rule, the tire companies are in competition. It's no different than racers, speed cost money. Even if it were a compound rule, the tires would have more technology engineered into them. There are many rubber blends, side walls, tread patterns, as well as the over all construction that would effect the winner of the tire war. Yes tire war. Ask NASCAR about the Hoosier and Goodyear war. Also ask Hoosier about the financial strain it put them under.
You may ask why mount 40 tire? I you wanted to be competitive night in and night out you had to. I am sure you are aware, that even at Lernerville track conditions change from heat to feature, and night to night. Now add three or four other tracks into the mix and I think you get the picture.
JMO
#34
Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:03 AM
If they really, really want to make a tire rule that will help, then specify three different compounds, any manufacturer. This concept where a branded tire rule "saves racers money" is bullshit. It made Lernerville money, but that money never helped the guys that supported the place, did it? They added to the purse by shortening the field by four cars the first couple of seasons of the Goodyear rule, then they actually cut the purse this year. How did the big checks that Goodyear cut WRG help Lernerville's weekly racer's? "Unhook the cars" my ass.
I hope some of those teams saved their new old stock Hoosiers from three years ago, because they'll need them next year. And once again, AR is left out in the cold.
Those Hoosiers were spec tires as well, not their open competition tire. Can anyone name me a weekly 410 winged sprint track that didn't have the Goodyear rule? Why is this just a Lernerville issue? Does nobody remember Hoosier was the mandated tire prior to Goodyear, and oh by the way the racing sucked with them.
#35
Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:20 AM
Those Hoosiers were spec tires as well, not their open competition tire. Can anyone name me a weekly 410 winged sprint track that didn't have the Goodyear rule? Why is this just a Lernerville issue? Does nobody remember Hoosier was the mandated tire prior to Goodyear, and oh by the way the racing sucked with them.
You are correct George. The last I knew there were only 18 - weekly 410 tracks left in the USA. To me I can't see a tire company even caring about that little of business.
JMO
#36
Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:50 PM
They never raised the purse!! All they did was start 20 instead of 24....now the purse is even lower and they still only start 20!! They keep raping the racers to grease their pockets...spin it how ever you want pal...good day
Ya know pal, if I spent $4,000,000 to buy a race track, and then lay $35,000 on the line every week, no matter if anyone walked through the gates, I sure as HELL would want to grease my pockets!
Spin it ever you want PAL.... good day!
JMO
#37
Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:07 PM
Ok Pud Stroker....yeah yeah yeah...poor Lernerville...I'm sure they are doing just fine $$$$ simmer down nowYa know pal, if I spent $4,000,000 to buy a race track, and then lay $35,000 on the line every week, no matter if anyone walked through the gates, I sure as HELL would want to grease my pockets!
Spin it ever you want PAL.... good day!
JMO
#38
Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:22 PM
Actually, it is cheaper to produce tires for tire rules. The tire company has to produce less models and sizes, so their inventory is lower. Also because they don't have to compete against other tire companies, their engineering cost are lower. The tire does not have to be the fastest, just durable, hence thicker side walls.
With an open rule, the tire companies are in competition. It's no different than racers, speed cost money. Even if it were a compound rule, the tires would have more technology engineered into them. There are many rubber blends, side walls, tread patterns, as well as the over all construction that would effect the winner of the tire war. Yes tire war. Ask NASCAR about the Hoosier and Goodyear war. Also ask Hoosier about the financial strain it put them under.
You may ask why mount 40 tire? I you wanted to be competitive night in and night out you had to. I am sure you are aware, that even at Lernerville track conditions change from heat to feature, and night to night. Now add three or four other tracks into the mix and I think you get the picture.
JMO
Can't agree with you on your first point, the reason is that Goodyears RR cost $220 plus tax per tire. And I bet Hoosier's and American Racers are cheaper or about the same and I think you are saying that GY's would be cheaper but they aren't.
I would be ok with them going to a compound rule. Make us run hard tires that last, that will save the teams money.
JMO but I'm not saying I'm right.
Wagner Racing #38
#39
Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:01 AM
Those Hoosiers were spec tires as well, not their open competition tire. Can anyone name me a weekly 410 winged sprint track that didn't have the Goodyear rule? Why is this just a Lernerville issue? Does nobody remember Hoosier was the mandated tire prior to Goodyear, and oh by the way the racing sucked with them.
How many times do I have to repeat myself about this. It isn't just a Lernerville thing. And, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the racing sucked, I honestly have seen little difference other than for the WoO shows.
#40
Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:04 PM
How many times do I have to repeat myself about this. It isn't just a Lernerville thing. And, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the racing sucked, I honestly have seen little difference other than for the WoO shows.
I personally think the racing has been better on the Goodyears....now I can't speak for the overall quality of the tires as I know nothing about it except the product I can see on track. I am also completely against tire rules and think the drivers should have the choice, but I'm afraid those days are gone at about every track in every division. Wasn't exactly saying to you it wasn't just a Lernerville thing, really just happened to click on your post to reply to...but it seems everyone wants to turn it into that. Sorry for the confusion.
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