36 replies to this topic

[jo73]

700.00 to win is ridiculous. The names I had mentioned ALL had crate cars at 1 time. This is the mentally that will park more of these cars unless purses come up. I personally have nothing against crate racing. I get it. There trying to control costs. But, what I don't get is how long do you think these guys are going to be able to survive on a purse structure like that ? Call it whatever you want ! The raw deal the sportsman guy's at lernerville are getting is nothing more than trying to have teams move up to crate's. Anyone that doesn't believe that, your confused. Anyone notice the new rockets at lernerville last night. Maybe I am confused, do you get a discount if you call rocket and say I just want a crate LM, not a SLM.

[The Legend]

Jo what would fair pay be ????? Do they need to increase each spot 50 ???? 100 ??? 150 ??? 500 ?? 1000 ???? Say you
Increased every spot 100 and the average guy races 20 times a year that's 2k. What you don't understand is guys aren't quitting because they don't have 2k they are quitting because they don't have 25

[fastforward1]

Jo what would fair pay be ????? Do they need to increase each spot 50 ???? 100 ??? 150 ??? 500 ?? 1000 ???? Say you
Increased every spot 100 and the average guy races 20 times a year that's 2k. What you don't understand is guys aren't quitting because they don't have 2k they are quitting because they don't have 25

Legend, this is probably my favorite of all your posts !!

However, I still prefer the ones that compare the cost of going to the Philly Corral to the cost of going to a race !!
;-)

[bezerker]

Your missing the whole point of this class.

This class was suppose to be a stepping stone to the SLM. 

The idea was for the SLMs to hand-me-down equipment for unexperienced drivers or teams which couldnt afford the SLM. That was the concept behind this class. It justifies the lower purse under that concept, but that is not what this class has become or ever really was.

Its really a SLM class with spec motors.

Isnt that what PPMS was trying in the SLMs for a few years? They allowed crate teams(99,4 and 1) to get "competative" with the open motors and when that happened they dropped the SLMs as the main class. Nothing like putting yourself out of business, SLM teams!

Why not enforce the late model rules and this never would have happened. Yes I know technology, but that is what rules are for. Technology is for the touring series where  the money is to made, not for weekly racing. (Traction control, tire softening, $8000 shocks and $10,000 brakes) where you barely make enough to get in the gate. I am not crying about money, you always have teams with money. You'll always have drivers with natural talent, but the crate class is not what it ended up to be.

And for all the front Crates who say they cant afford to run the SLM I laugh because you have as much, if not more, in your Crate teams as most late model teams have. You deserve what you get because your part of the problem also. Whats going to happen when they eliminate the SLM class all together? They still have supers running, but at a lower pay back. Stupid!

ITS NOT COST EFFECTIVE IF THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR CLASS AND ANOTHER IS THE PURSE!

And any smart business person would try to cut costs and elimnate the higher cost to them, hence the SLM teams.

Edited by bezerker, 02 May 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[oldtime racer]

AMEN, Nicely said bezerker.

[BaconBits]

Your missing the whole point of this class.
This class was suppose to be a stepping stone to the SLM. 
The idea was for the SLMs to hand-me-down equipment for unexperienced drivers or teams which couldnt afford the SLM. That was the concept behind this class. It justifies the lower purse under that concept, but that is not what this class has become or ever really was.
Its really a SLM class with spec motors.
Isnt that what PPMS was trying in the SLMs for a few years? They allowed crate teams(99,4 and 1) to get "competative" with the open motors and when that happened they dropped the SLMs as the main class. Nothing like putting yourself out of business, SLM teams!
Why not enforce the late model rules and this never would have happened. Yes I know technology, but that is what rules are for. Technology is for the touring series where  the money is to made, not for weekly racing. (Traction control, tire softening, $8000 shocks and $10,000 brakes) where you barely make enough to get in the gate. I am not crying about money, you always have teams with money. You'll always have drivers with natural talent, but the crate class is not what it ended up to be.
And for all the front Crates who say they cant afford to run the SLM I laugh because you have as much, if not more, in your Crate teams as most late model teams have. You deserve what you get because your part of the problem also. Whats going to happen when they eliminate the SLM class all together? They still have supers running, but at a lower pay back. Stupid!
ITS NOT COST EFFECTIVE IF THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR CLASS AND ANOTHER IS THE PURSE!
And any smart business person would try to cut costs and elimnate the higher cost to them, hence the SLM teams.

I don't know why people think the crate class was supposed to be some budget class. The only thing crate sanctions ever promised was a cheaper engine. That's literally it. The class itself wasn't even really created for the racers. It was created for promoters who wanted to have a late model class, but didn't want to pay super late model purses. It's kind of amazing how well Fastrak and Nesmith bufflaoed everybody.

[Chrome Horn]

I don't know why people think the crate class was supposed to be some budget class. The only thing crate sanctions ever promised was a cheaper engine. That's literally it. The class itself wasn't even really created for the racers. It was created for promoters who wanted to have a late model class, but didn't want to pay super late model purses. It's kind of amazing how well Fastrak and Nesmith bufflaoed everybody.

 

 

+1. I enjoy the crates but as I mentioned in another post, the class while intended to give racers who couldn't afford super lates a chance to race, the costs quickly spiraled out of control. All it takes is one racer to win with the latest most $$$$ parts and pretty soon every one else follows suit rinse and repeat. When you think about it and you got racers spending 10 grand on shock packages racing for 700 to win you can't always blame the promoter. If you knew you could pay 700 to win and get 20 cars every week why in the world would you even consider upping the purse?

[The Legend]

What shock package is 10k these guys are running ???? Even if you have ttx style shocks in all 5 spots it's still not 10k. The inerter stuff is quadruple the numbers your talking but without an engineer your wasting your time with that anyway. There is no reason you need shocks that cost 10k to run 400hp flat out around a race track, all you need is a good right front , a dyno to adjust it. When you double your HP it's a whole different ball game.

[The Legend]

I should add if someone is charging you 10k for your crate late shocks I hope they used something more than spit on their tip lol

[BaconBits]

What shock package is 10k these guys are running ???? Even if you have ttx style shocks in all 5 spots it's still not 10k. The inerter stuff is quadruple the numbers your talking but without an engineer your wasting your time with that anyway. There is no reason you need shocks that cost 10k to run 400hp flat out around a race track, all you need is a good right front , a dyno to adjust it. When you double your HP it's a whole different ball game.

I've noticed the majority of people who whine about costs on racing forums rarely have race cars. They have these magic numbers they like to put out there that are way off base.

[Skull]

I don't know why people think the crate class was supposed to be some budget class. The only thing crate sanctions ever promised was a cheaper engine. That's literally it. The class itself wasn't even really created for the racers. It was created for promoters who wanted to have a late model class, but didn't want to pay super late model purses. It's kind of amazing how well Fastrak and Nesmith bufflaoed everybody.

There was, no doubt, some slick salesmanship from Stan Lester himself about the concept, because many jumped on the bandwagon, while still others, like myself tried to caution that despite the rules and the teching procedure regarding the integrity of the sealed engines, money would win out. It actually happened quicker than I thought.

[bezerker]

You misread my post. $2000 per shock=$8000 your initial investment. Thats not including any initial time and money for whoever your working with , to do different set ups, maybe another set of shocks for a slick track, slimy track, wet track etc...

[jo73]

Bacon. 2 points, the class was created so promoters didn't have to pay SLM purses. CORRECT, is that working. NO. You have teams spending the same, be it a crate car or a SLM. Something is wrong with that picture. I really don't no how many newcomers would even consider spending 30 grand for a 700.00 purse. Anyone wonder why car counts are declining, business sense tells me. Don't do it.
Point 2. I've had race cars, lost money with every dam 1 of them. I personally doubt any local racers are making any money racing. People do it because they love it. Every person on here has there own opinion be it team owner, driver or fan. I was going to get back in with my son in a sportsman car, for a new sportsman car it was going to cost 30K. Great, how happy do you think I would have been hearing, o by the way, that new race motor you have, you gotta go buy another one. The sportsman class is supposed to be for entry-level guys. Wanna see good racing with purses over 700.00 to win. ( yes not all, I can see the replies already) Go to ppms and watch the penn-ohio series.
Legend, you asked how much more. I do not no the pay back. I will ask you this ? I read on here and believe you have a SLM. you no what your spending, you no what these crate guys are spending. Do you think 700.00 makes sense ?

[The Legend]

Again I ask what shocks are they spending 2k per on ??? TTX style Ohlins are 1400 ... And VERY few if any crate guys are running those.

[Chrome Horn]

Rumor is PPMS has 40 crates tonight!

[The Legend]

I
Want to point out that the spec engine was working well in the super lates until Jared stopped running one and they started flooding the track every week to take it from apex friendly to 430 only. Keeping it slick will make the spec engine work again ....

[BaconBits]

Bacon. 2 points, the class was created so promoters didn't have to pay SLM purses. CORRECT, is that working. NO. You have teams spending the same, be it a crate car or a SLM. Something is wrong with that picture. I really don't no how many newcomers would even consider spending 30 grand for a 700.00 purse. Anyone wonder why car counts are declining, business sense tells me. Don't do it.
Point 2. I've had race cars, lost money with every dam 1 of them. I personally doubt any local racers are making any money racing. People do it because they love it. Every person on here has there own opinion be it team owner, driver or fan. I was going to get back in with my son in a sportsman car, for a new sportsman car it was going to cost 30K. Great, how happy do you think I would have been hearing, o by the way, that new race motor you have, you gotta go buy another one. The sportsman class is supposed to be for entry-level guys. Wanna see good racing with purses over 700.00 to win. ( yes not all, I can see the replies already) Go to ppms and watch the penn-ohio series.
Legend, you asked how much more. I do not no the pay back. I will ask you this ? I read on here and believe you have a SLM. you no what your spending, you no what these crate guys are spending. Do you think 700.00 makes sense ?

 

 

It is not the tracks' fault if racers are spending SLM money to run crates. Raising the purse will not fix that in any way, shape, or form, in fact, it would likely make it even worse. You start paying the crates SLM money, and watch more and more SLM teams get a crate motor and throw it in the back up car and run crate races. That'll make teams wanting to get into crates do it even less.

 

Besides, late models, crates included, aren't what new teams coming into the sport should be getting into. The cars are way too expensive and cost way too much to fix for somebody to be taking lumps and tearing their and others shit up every week because they can't control it.

Edited by BaconBits, 03 May 2015 - 10:15 AM.