48 replies to this topic

[race ace]

If you want an "affordable" and competitive stock car class all you have to do is look to the west. IMCA has an extremely competitive stock car class that are still what many define as stock cars. Full frame chassis on ford 9 inch rears, disc brakes, steel wheels, steel stock appearing bodies, and hard tires. Great racing week in and week out in that division.

that is what i was talking about right there, we can do this .

[Skull]

that is what i was talking about right there, we can do this .

The problem is, there are quite a few teams out there with "outlaw" stock equipment. If (and that is a big if) a handful of tracks would go back to 8" tires, etc., what would those teams do with the equipment that would be rendered illegal?

[jo73]

Walt makes a excellent point. But, the root of the problem goes to the people that are making the rules. Unfortunately, whatever you want to call them, Street stk. pure stk. or sportsman. There is no unified rules from track to track. Sprint cars, Late models and modified cars can go from track to track, the promoters open there doors and say come on in. No other class can do this. People complain about the 10" tire, the crate motors, the Suspensions of today's cars. There are cars already leaving lernerville due to the crate crap being shoved down there pocket book. I give these guys with the penn/Ohio series all the credit. UNIFIED RULES. The promoters have all these filler classes for 1 reason only. To pad there back gate. So they let the rules run crazy. This crate crap for the lernerville sportsman class next year smells. Mr. RISCh or Mrs. Emig I'd like to hear your thoughts. Maybe the motor fairy is going to show up and give the 20+ cars faithful to lernerville top dollar for there useless power trains.

[DaleJr.Fan8]

Thing is all these teams who wanted alot of these "outlaw" rules have now become the same teams complaining about the cost to purse/payout. You guys wanted these rules and now that they are here and you have the bill youve shitkicked in the pants on the whole deal.

[blue by you]

Walt makes a excellent point. But, the root of the problem goes to the people that are making the rules. Unfortunately, whatever you want to call them, Street stk. pure stk. or sportsman. There is no unified rules from track to track. Sprint cars, Late models and modified cars can go from track to track, the promoters open there doors and say come on in. No other class can do this. People complain about the 10" tire, the crate motors, the Suspensions of today's cars. There are cars already leaving lernerville due to the crate crap being shoved down there pocket book. I give these guys with the penn/Ohio series all the credit. UNIFIED RULES. The promoters have all these filler classes for 1 reason only. To pad there back gate. So they let the rules run crazy. This crate crap for the lernerville sportsman class next year smells. Mr. RISCh or Mrs. Emig I'd like to hear your thoughts. Maybe the motor fairy is going to show up and give the 20+ cars faithful to lernerville top dollar for there useless power trains.

theres money changing hands on this deal. you can count on it. gm. rush an lernerville.

[The Legend]

" the pig " has played her fair share of " rusty trombones " in her day that's for sure ...

[race ace]

The problem is, there are quite a few teams out there with "outlaw" stock equipment. If (and that is a big if) a handful of tracks would go back to 8" tires, etc., what would those teams do with the equipment that would be rendered illegal?

they would do the same thing i have done with my 6 carbs that were made obsolete by the current rules if we are going to save this class people are going to have to make some changes. i have lots of stuff i can't use anymore do you want your cars back or do you want to continue to watch 8 car features ?fix the problem now or this class goes away forever.

[Skull]

they would do the same thing i have done with my 6 carbs that were made obsolete by the current rules if we are going to save this class people are going to have to make some changes. i have lots of stuff i can't use anymore do you want your cars back or do you want to continue to watch 8 car features ?fix the problem now or this class goes away forever.

 

I agree the class needs fixed. You want to take it back far enough that you can race what you have and be competitive, and that is not economically feasible for everyone. You make claims that all of these teams have non-competitive cars sitting around, waiting to race. Really? How many of those cars are truly race ready?  Or ready for the torch? 8 inch tires? How many teams kept their 8 inch rims when most of the regional tracks went to 10 inch tires?  I also agree that stocks should not drive or look like SLM's, but I don't think taking the class back twenty years is going to solve anything either.

[jo73]

What's wrong with running a spec. 358, 383 or 406. You can easily make these motors competitive against each other by adjusting carb. sizing on each displacement. There is enough knowledge out there that would let guys build competitive motors at reasonable costs. You have to control costs. 8" tires are not the answer. Guys right now can go to any of the top 3 classes for both tires and wheels. You can get tires from 25 to 40.00. The bodies are another cost item. Flat sheet, in the color of your choice is a lot cheaper than going to find a stock body panel. Let's not forget, then there's paint and it's not cheap anymore. Why can't the local speedway's come together to make a set of unified rules ? Me personally, I think you would see car counts go up. Get guys in at the entry level. Promote it. Then maybe these guys coming in will move to a higher class. Today, right now, most tracks you can't go from track to track without change. Maybe a team traveling to another track mite say hey never been able to race here because of rules but I like this place. I will be back. It's not the racer or the fan hurting local speedway's. It's the people with tunnel vision. You guys better start thinking outside the box because your killing the sport. The PR people at the local racetracks need to hear the racers. Your job is more than just posting results.

[Walt Wimer]

Generally, the PR people have no say in the rules or car specs!!  They are just the messengers for the track owner/promoter who makes such.    I have long been for identical rules/car specs at all local tracks, but such has never come close to happening!!

 

Walt

[jo73]

The only reason I mention PR people is because I believe they are, in some cases, unfortunately the people who take the heat as to why car counts are down and why are there no fans in the seats. I can only imagine the frustration of trying to make someone understand something that only makes good sense.

[race ace]

 

I agree the class needs fixed. You want to take it back far enough that you can race what you have and be competitive, and that is not economically feasible for everyone. You make claims that all of these teams have non-competitive cars sitting around, waiting to race. Really? How many of those cars are truly race ready?  Or ready for the torch? 8 inch tires? How many teams kept their 8 inch rims when most of the regional tracks went to 10 inch tires?  I also agree that stocks should not drive or look like SLM's, but I don't think taking the class back twenty years is going to solve anything either.

I have never once said to take the class back twenty years . but bert transmissions and full roller engines put a lot of guys out of business heck the streetsstock  class is a dry sump and a full tube chasis  and a quick change rear end from being a full blown  late model if these big dollar street stock  teams  want to run a late model then they should have bought one instead of ruining a once good class . how many cars do i know  that are good cars not running and not ready for a torch ????i can think of at least 6 within 10 miles of my house some of them are almost ready with a few hours of work but why race against those semi lates they are making look like street stocks ? i say fix this class the best way possible for everyone involved that is why i wanted to have a meeting to discuss this with louie at hummingbird years ago not a scream fest just a idea session.

[714d]

if these big dollar street stock  teams  want to run a late model then they should have bought one instead of ruining a once good class.

Pretty sure most DID realize that and DID move up.
Did you notice almost 30 lates at the bird, and only 10 street stocks?

[D1RT]

Part of the problem if not most of it lies with the track owners/promoters that let the street stock drivers run the rule book.

When you let the inmates run the asylum this is what you end up with......

[The Legend]

That's because they want rules written based on what they personally have instead of what is affordable and makes sense to sustain racing ....

[Fastbydesign]

I think that some of the open rule stuff has evolved from people with more money than ambition wanting to buy victories.  Building and racing a 2 bbl stock is more difficult than racing in an open rule class-if you have the cash to outspend your competitors.  Take Bedford's Semi-late class for instance.  Racing and winning in that class is very difficult.  15 drivers in that class have been racing for over a deacade.  The cars are very equal due to the somewhat restrictive rules and late model tires.  A spend-to-win guy will become frustrated in a hurry there.  I think this is why these open rule tracks get some cars.  Guys not wanting to put in the homework to race in a restricted class realize that hey can build/buy a superior car and dominate.   As an aside, ask any Bedford speedway late model affectionado and they will admit that the Semi Late division always has outstanding racing action.  Much better than watching the same car win week after week.

[Skull]

I think that some of the open rule stuff has evolved from people with more money than ambition wanting to buy victories.  Building and racing a 2 bbl stock is more difficult than racing in an open rule class-if you have the cash to outspend your competitors.  Take Bedford's Semi-late class for instance.  Racing and winning in that class is very difficult.  15 drivers in that class have been racing for over a deacade.  The cars are very equal due to the somewhat restrictive rules and late model tires.  A spend-to-win guy will become frustrated in a hurry there.  I think this is why these open rule tracks get some cars.  Guys not wanting to put in the homework to race in a restricted class realize that hey can build/buy a superior car and dominate.   As an aside, ask any Bedford speedway late model affectionado and they will admit that the Semi Late division always has outstanding racing action.  Much better than watching the same car win week after week.

Well stated. Easier to buy wins than to have to work for them.

 

I think it is that attitude that spawns so many of these support classes, too. "Can't win in that class, let's form another and out spend the other ten cars". The big fish, small pond syndrome.

[race ace]

here is the thing there are no kids down the street building and gutting a car out for this class anymore the class is dying we had ( a few years ago ) enough cars to at least run 3 heats  now there are 8 or 10 cars i suggested a solution not based on what i had, because i was going to have to spend money to race but to try and save the class. but since all you guys have no better solutions than i had  i guess tracks will sooner or later drop the class and nobody will have to worry about it .including me. i am done commenting on this now if tracks want their car counts back they are going to have to try something .or maybe they just will drop them like the truck class or the rear wheel drive 4 cylinders at hummingbird .

[714d]

Saving the class may not be the answer. As stated before, there are too many classes more so than not enough drivers. 3-4 classes a night with full fields beats the hell out of 6 features with not enough cars to split them into heats. People get to go home by 10, so it becomes more of a family affair, the way it's meant to be. Out of the 10 stocks, the top 5 are probably already thinking of moving up and the bottom 5 would be more competitive in a lower class anyway. Problem solved. Check the classifieds on this site. You have quite a pick of turn-key race winning street stocks that aren't even getting a nibble. No one wants to get into this class anymore.

[714d]

Ace, I've read your rule ideas a thousand times. Nothing wrong with them at all...... It's what the pure stocks are running now. Axe the street stocks and pay the pure stocks the street stock purse. The first track to do that will have every pure stock in 100 miles.