50 replies to this topic

[spike]

Talk about old news that was from 6 months ago. Despite this blockbuster deal. PPMS had to cancel their first Racesaver show this year due to no cars. If stating facts is running down Racesaver to you, so be it.
[/quote

Talk about old news that was from 6 months ago. Despite this blockbuster deal. PPMS had to cancel their first Racesaver show this year due to no cars. If stating facts is running down Racesaver to you, so be it.
[/quote] Look out French. 1000 cars in 17 states. Huhgh! You ain't seen nothin' yet.

[3799]

According my notes, PPMS had 11 cars for their Racesaver race on May 10,  Dog Hollow 12 on May 22 and Bedford 12 on May 25.  Mercer gets 17-19 most of the time for the OSW.
 
Walt

Walt they cancelled the first Racesaver show at PPMS. The 11 cars showed up for the rescheduled date.

[spike]

Walt they cancelled the first Racesaver show at PPMS. The 11 cars showed up for the rescheduled date.

Fact check for the car count in their regular divisions.

[The Legend]

Anytime dollar numbers are " thrown around " on this site you have to remember it's also
Claimed on here that you can't finish top 10 in a cadet race unless you spend 30k minimum on a motor when Chris Schneider and others have won multiple races with a crate motor !! Jake Simmons probably won 50+ races at ppms in the last decade and probably didn't spend 30k the entire decade ..... But yep race stud says it costs 30k minimum engine alone just to have a prayer at a top 10 in the cadets and since it's said here it's gospel. If they are charging you 30k for these 305 motors they are pocketing 20k+ and the bottom line on pricing is that as long as the customer knows the price up front and agrees to
It then you can't say the customer got screwed.

[flash49]

The originally scheduled Racesaver show at PPMS, which turned out to be opening night because of the weather, was postponed ahead of time. Two cars, including Robby Bartchy, showed up for hot laps.  I have no dog in this fight, hope to see both organizations thrive.  Those 305s put on a great show, reaching speeds in the low 120s.  

[TUNACAN]

3799,

 

Racesaver isn't even popular in Western PA, so of course they wouldn't get huge car counts.  The largest group of Racesavers in the state run the PA 305 Sprint series.  Big Diamond, Hesston, Lincoln, Port Royal, Penn Can, Selinsgrove, Trail-Way, Susquehanna, and Williams Grove.  None of those are anywhere near Mercer/Pittsburgh, and with a race going on weekly, why would anyone want to stray from their series to travel 5 hours away to run?  Ill planned, yes, but definitely not a good judge of a class that has 80 some active registered drivers this season.

 

Its just splitting the state with a rule package.  Gives the western PA sprint drivers a lower budget class, and the eastern PA drivers a lower budget class.   Its not growing leaps and bounds with new faces, its in part because drivers are moving from other classes in.   Like moving 10 bucks from the left pocket to the right and claiming you have more money.

Edited by TUNACAN, 18 June 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[vinnydock92]

It is a shame that they cant have a unified set of rules, but that will never happen. So I guess everyone just has to way out their options on what is best for them. In western Pa. you would have to say that OSW is the way to go for the plain fact that there is 3 tracks to run weekly and Tri City specials. Race saver is only big out east. I will tell you from hands on experience that there is a lot more than the engine that goes int being a successful team. But the easiest thing to do if you are not running well is to call the other guy a cheater. I am not sure that I know of any $30,000 305 engines out there in our area.but I could be wrong. I have talked to several engine builders and you can spend 15 to 18 grand if you bought every part brand new, but that isn't necessary at all if you do a little shopping.The OSW class really is growing and that is good for all of sprint car racing. JMO, Good Luck to all and I hope Sprint car racing in Western Pa. stays Strong!! 

[3799]

It is a shame that they cant have a unified set of rules, but that will never happen. So I guess everyone just has to way out their options on what is best for them. In western Pa. you would have to say that OSW is the way to go for the plain fact that there is 3 tracks to run weekly and Tri City specials. Race saver is only big out east. I will tell you from hands on experience that there is a lot more than the engine that goes int being a successful team. But the easiest thing to do if you are not running well is to call the other guy a cheater. I am not sure that I know of any $30,000 305 engines out there in our area.but I could be wrong. I have talked to several engine builders and you can spend 15 to 18 grand if you bought every part brand new, but that isn't necessary at all if you do a little shopping.The OSW class really is growing and that is good for all of sprint car racing. JMO, Good Luck to all and I hope Sprint car racing in Western Pa. stays Strong!!

Skip, for the record there has been a unification attempt by OSW. We do allow Racesaver teched and sealed engines to run with OSW. The rules are pretty much the same. Racesaver however keeps to themselves.

[spike]

Skip, for the record there has been a unification attempt by OSW. We do allow Racesaver teched and sealed engines to run with OSW. The rules are pretty much the same. Racesaver however keeps to themselves.

OSW good points. No tire rule. No membership. No entry fee.

[Walt Wimer]

From someone on the outside looking in, the Racesaver bunch seem to be the ones holding things back!!   It appears to me that French Grimes is somewhat of a little dictator who wants to control everything and tell those running his deal what they can and can't do.  However, I have never met the man and I could be wrong!!   But that is the way it looks to me.   Good to see Thunder Mountain has raised their purse for the 305 class!!!   And with 17-19 cars on hand every week there is little reason for Mercer to go a different direction.  The race teams have "voted" by their attendance there every week!!

 

GOOD RACING TO ALL!!!

 

Walt

[dirtstudent2]

I like the idea of open racing and like to watch open racing.

 

But racing even open needs some sort or rules.  Kart racing the UAS started in western pa and it's basic philosophy is to do what you can to include all.  I see the OSW as doing something to include all and not exclude.  At this point all they need is to put some weight rules to try to include all.

 

It use to be you could throw a 360 together for cheap, go racing with 410's hoping to get in the show and have it pay your way.  If not, the tow money was better then today and you would at least get enough to stop and eat after the races.   There were those then that had money and put tons of money into their 360's using them for entry level.

 

Today is no different, except there are more cars racing.  Where it use to be 24 cars on the track and a B main because entry level and low dollar cars were included, today there's an entry level which can put 20 on the track and 410's which can put 20 on the track.  In total there are  more cars and there should be because the population has grown.

 

Back to entry level.  

 

If your starting out there is a lot to learn.  If you have the funds and you can afford a $30,000 engine to run with the OSW, then that is what you should do.  Starting out if you can afford it, there's nothing much better you can do then to spend the $30,000 and take the question of is your engine good enough, out of your learning curve.  Learning ain't easy no matter what you race.  

 

Mercer and the OSW should talk to Mark Bergfeld who started the UAS kart racing, which now has gone national.  Talk to him and learn his thoughts and ideas about how to include.  And hear his reasons to include as many as possible.  Today the UAS is still and has been for many years now, the fastest growing class in kart racing.

 

If the OSW makes effort to include all and does not become controlled by suppliers, accepting supplier support only for contingencies and purse money, with no demands tolerated, it can grow not only locally, but across the nation.  

Edited by dirtstudent2, 18 June 2015 - 11:43 AM.

[D1RT]

From someone on the outside looking in, the Racesaver bunch seem to be the ones holding things back!!   It appears to me that French Grimes is somewhat of a little dictator who wants to control everything and tell those running his deal what they can and can't do.  However, I have never met the man and I could be wrong!!   But that is the way it looks to me.   Good to see Thunder Mountain has raised their purse for the 305 class!!!   And with 17-19 cars on hand every week there is little reason for Mercer to go a different direction.  The race teams have "voted" by their attendance there every week!!

 

GOOD RACING TO ALL!!!

 

Walt

 

“The signing of this historic partnership strengthens RaceSaver and IMCA, and secures our posi­tion as the largest sprint car sanctioning body in existence,” Grimes emphasized. “RaceSaver brings more than 1,000 Sprint Cars in 17 states and IMCA brings an organization that has sup­ported local weekly racing with a national structure.”

 

Really? You call teaming up with the largest dirt track sanctioning body in the USA (IMCA) holding things back?

In 2014 PASS/RaceSaver in Central Pa had 67 different drivers compete in 34 events with 22 different drivers winning.

So far in 2015 with the exception of Racing For Heroes Speedway PASS/RaceSaver tracks in Central Pa. have been getting 20-22 cars from what I dug out of their results.

They must be doing something right.....

[bmax15]

Ok lets try and recap whats happened on this post before it was side tracked with the OSW vs Race saver debate.Here is what has been said,there are racers out there willing to spend 25 to 30 grand to build a engine .There is an engine builder who is building, teching and sealing his own motors and a race track unwilling to thoroughly  tech winning cars.This sounds like a real problem. Go to mylaps and compare lap times over the years its in black and white.If you have guys spending 25 grand on motors I would start teching their cars  first. Climb off the soap box and call a spade a spade there are cars in the OSW with non conforming motors 

[spike]

From someone on the outside looking in, the Racesaver bunch seem to be the ones holding things back!!   It appears to me that French Grimes is somewhat of a little dictator who wants to control everything and tell those running his deal what they can and can't do.  However, I have never met the man and I could be wrong!!   But that is the way it looks to me.   Good to see Thunder Mountain has raised their purse for the 305 class!!!   And with 17-19 cars on hand every week there is little reason for Mercer to go a different direction.  The race teams have "voted" by their attendance there every week!!
 
GOOD RACING TO ALL!!!
 
Walt

Imagine if Sharon had gone with Racesaver. We wouldn't be having this discussion. But they didn't. If you go back and check, Sharon at their peak got10 Green Flags a week. Now PPMS is maligned because they got 11 for their first race. Sharon dropped the Green Flags and those had really no place to go. Enter Mercer. My understanding is Mercer was going to become Racesaver with participation with and phase out of the Green Flags. Obviously that did not happen. What did happen is Racesaver and Green Flag were joined by All Pro and 6.2 crate. It isn't much of a stretch to think 6.4 and something else could join the list. Now you can see what French saw years ago. If something happened to Mercer, now you would see not only Green Flag looking for a new home but also All Pro and 6.2. So if you have a Racesaver or 6.2 it is without doubt Mercer is the place to be on a Saturday night in western PA if you live here. You are underpowered but it's a hobby. And you learn to be a driver racing Mercer. So enjoy the current situation. And hopefully when a big race is presented, the purse will increase equally for all.

[woodhog]

Currently 4 racesaver cars racing at mercer
#4j-jake gomola
#6-tyler denochick
#88-greg dobrosky
#23-Darren pifer

[3799]

Ok lets try and recap whats happened on this post before it was side tracked with the OSW vs Race saver debate.Here is what has been said,there are racers out there willing to spend 25 to 30 grand to build a engine .There is an engine builder who is building, teching and sealing his own motors and a race track unwilling to thoroughly  tech winning cars.This sounds like a real problem. Go to mylaps and compare lap times over the years its in black and white.If you have guys spending 25 grand on motors I would start teching their cars  first. Climb off the soap box and call a spade a spade there are cars in the OSW with non conforming motors 

This post was started by a Racesaver supporter upset that OSW is who Tri City went with for their limited sprint rules. Nobody has a $30,000 engine in OSW. There are plenty of series where engine builders certify engines for the series. Everybody thinks they are certain there is cheating going on, but nobody wants to put up the money to prove what they think they "know". There are random checks done on OSW cars every week, either at the track or their shop. The track believes Larry Riffe is doing a great job as our Tech Inspector. SSDD.

[bomber315]

ive seen what i assume is a random check at the track.  i dont believe simply looking for a seal in the dark with a flashlight is sufficient. But there is nothing i can do about it, i am neither a car owner or a driver.  Also there is plenty else than can be done that is against the rules and not engine related, or at least not covered by a seal

[Crusty1]

The thread starts with the Tri-city rules and the cheating motors at Mercer.
With Racesaver no one bitches about someone cheating up a motor they are Racesaver sealed.

I think the GM sealed 602 would be the best and most economical way to start into Sprints.

[jo73]

It's all the RULES MAKERS that make all this crap so dam complicated. Racesavers, French Grimes. OSW, not sure. If, and I gotta believe that's a BIG if, someone is spending over 10k on a supposedly ENTRY LEVEL sprint car class engine. Unbelievable. Why do I say the rule makers are at fault ? It's actually very simple. There is a abundance of speed parts out there. New and used. You can't tell me that if you put a motor package together in the rules that SIMPLY states these are the part #'s you can use to build your motors. Be it bow tie, ford or mopar. Disallow any massaging of anything over stock tolerance. Remember SIMPLE. Then put a claim number, say 3 to 3500 on the TOP END. But, you no the only problem with this type of thinking. It's to dam simple. I am not saying these are solid guidelines. What I am saying is, if the local speedway's would sit down and discuss a simple rules package with decent pay outs, I believe the class would grow. No more, OSW. No more Racesavers. Just my 2 cents worth.

[spike]

The thread starts with the Tri-city rules and the cheating motors at Mercer.
With Racesaver no one bitches about someone cheating up a motor they are Racesaver sealed.

I think the GM sealed 602 would be the best and most economical way to start into Sprints.

Welcome.

Edited by spike, 18 June 2015 - 07:13 PM.