58 replies to this topic

[lvillefan19]

Why have car counts been so loss this year with gas prices being so cheap?

[LM RACING]

My guess is that when prices went up a lot of the multi night racers quit, sold everything, or let stuff sit to the point they lost interest or stuff got out dated or illegal. It would take too much to get back on the track just so gas could go up again.

[94.3-RADRACER]

LOL, because racecars aren't.......

[dirtstudent2]

Those that can afford it and want to race are still racing.

 

What reduces car counts is the result of what track owners and promoters do.  It has nothing at all to do with the economy.  It does have to do with what form of entertainment happens to be popular, nationally, locally and available reasonably close to home.

 

Here are some things I think hurt car count.  When tracks and promoters shift their long term planing, from considering racers who put on the show an asset, to just another customer.  Racers then become only customers, to be charged, as one former track owner once told me, a fair price to race at their track.  Racers then also become customers to track owners, promoters and product vendors, via additional tacked on added value items like, registration fees, mandated purchase of products and slick payouts schemes, reduced tow money, reduced payouts, increased at the track fuel prices, forced expense for racers to physically get cars on the track saving show production cost.

 

I recently talked to a 410 racer who told me one week they pitted next to a 305 racer and the next week when they saw him in the pits, and asked why he wasn't racing?  The answer was they saved up and with help got a car together to race, but couldn't afford to get the car to the track.  Sure tell us how if you can't afford to race, you shouldn't be racing.  But it's a major reason for low car counts.

 

Might a $11,000+ 604 crate engine with all the whistles and bells on it, being forced on racers be a reason for low car counts?   I guess it's a business decision, to eliminate those who are able to build their own engines for $6000 and can't afford the $11,000+ crate engines.  I guess you figure you'll keep enough of those who can afford the $11,000+ crate engine, but chose to do their own engines, because they will switch instead of getting out of racing.  

 

When a track can tell and demand of racers by saying hey,  "If you don't come and race at my track and put on the show for me in numbers(24 or more),  I'm going to jack up your cost by reducing the payout.  And I'm going to do that even though the fans you bring to my grandstands will be there even if there are not 24+ of you.  You see if you don't show up to race I not only don't have to pay you as much, there will be less of you I even have to pay out.  Ain't that slick, it's a win win for me the track promoter.  You bring the customers anyway and I figure out a way I can reduce payout.  Don't you think there are some racers who are not going to be there because of your  touting reduced payout?

 

Racers don't reduce car counts, track owners, promoters and vendors reduce car counts, by putting stress on the racers who put on the show.  If there is not enough interest in a reduced show put on by track owners, promoters and vendors, car counts can be maintained by reducing the amount of tracks.   

 

The only reason for car counts not to be reduced because of what track owners, promoters and vendors have done, is the over all population is increasing and there are more people around, who can afford to race if they want to.

[spike]

More money going to the few at the top. Now where would a track owner get that idea? And then they wonder where the many went.

Edited by spike, 13 August 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[The Legend]

Dirt student do you own a car or have you ever owned a car ??? If not your opinion means as much as Hillary Clinton swearing to tell the truth ....

[whiteboy55]

the price to run a car competitively, is out of control. the racers are their own worst enemy.

 

if you are going to the track to run a stock car with an $80,000 rig and trailer , you are the reason racing is failing. these guys that do not have the balls to move up, but have the money to, are what is causing tracks to fail. the upper divisions struggle due to the fact that the guys that can afford to move up don't. the lower divisions struggle to get new drivers into the sport because they can't afford to build a car and be competitive. go price a brand new stock car from Chris Schneider and then ask yourself why car counts are down. 

 

the over spending because you CAN, is causing people to get out of the sport because they can't compete with the $!

[Tylervharris]

the price to run a car competitively, is out of control. the racers are their own worst enemy.
 
if you are going to the track to run a stock car with an $80,000 rig and trailer , you are the reason racing is failing. these guys that do not have the balls to move up, but have the money to, are what is causing tracks to fail. the upper divisions struggle due to the fact that the guys that can afford to move up don't. the lower divisions struggle to get new drivers into the sport because they can't afford to build a car and be competitive. go price a brand new stock car from Chris Schneider and then ask yourself why car counts are down. 
 
the over spending because you CAN, is causing people to get out of the sport because they can't compete with the $!

I agree with this to an extent, but where or how do you draw the line? In stocks, the crate debate is obvious . But mods, lates, sprints, etc.

Edited by Tylervharris, 13 August 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[whiteboy55]

I agree with this to an extent, but where or how do you draw the line? In stocks, the crate debate is obvious . But mods, lates, sprints, etc.

a set of Integra  shocks for a CRATE late costs ABOUT $3,000, maybe more. You can buy the Billstein shock for about $135 plus $40 for the add-ons ($175 per shock) 6 shocks will cost less than half the price of the Integra's

 

you can probably count on one hand how many guys are running the Billsteins, why? because the guy with the money will spend the cash on the better ones thinking that they will have an advantage. again the drivers are their own worst enemy. if you can afford a set of shocks at $3,000 move up to Super Lates, money obviously isn't an issue for your team.

 

the top series (Lucas and WoO) are outlawing exotic shocks, that's a step in the right direction. sportsman or pure stock, cadets, whatever they call them now need to be on a hard 8 in. tire. Crate lates should not be able to run a $3,000 shock package when the motor only costs $7,000. 

[BRC27]

I think that there are a number of reasons for low car counts and most of them have been addressed here.  Number 1 first and foremost is Cost.   It's hard for the low budget teams to field a competitive car week in and week out.  I speak from experience!  I have no sponsors, own my own car, build my own engines, don't own a set of scales, but make due with what I have.  some weeks I hit the set up perfect and do alright (top 5).  Other night's I can't get out of my own way it seems and have to salvage a good night.  I might have half of what some other guys have in their cars.  But it is what it is.  I work my ass off to keep my car on the track.

 

The same is True on the other side of the coin.  Tracks seem to lose sight of what's important.  Notice I said "seem".  I've never owned a track so I can only give you my driver perspective.  I've noticed a common trend at the tracks I've been racing.  They all seem to bend the rules for people to let them race and keep car counts.  All that has done, is deter people that are racing by the rules to run there.  Track promoters need to create a set of rules and follow them.  (Black and White none of this Grey area BS.)  If your rules say no gas shocks, 406 max cubic inches, and no adjust able control arms, then that's what it needs to be.  Not 2 out of the 3.  Literally saw a track let someone race with Gas shocks and said it was ok, he was running a stock 350.  That sends a message to people, and not a good one.

[03Rocket]

I'll give you a first hand on what deters me from taking my car to a track....advertise a purse, whether it be based on a specific car count is fine just make that known prior to the event. Also I don't want to roll up to the pit gate and then pay this reg fee, and then a reg fee for this on top of the pit pass! As far as what other drivers have I could care less, I worry about what I have and how to make it as fast as possible with what I got, if I feel I need something I figure out how to work more or go without to afford it. I don't sit in the garage and bitch that driver x has more resources than me so he should move up, that's assinine. An extra hour in the garage every night maintaining your car making sure no bolts are bent, heims that are supposed to move do, your front end alignment is correct, will go much further than buying a new shock and bolting it on your scrap wagon.

Edited by 03Rocket, 13 August 2015 - 02:08 PM.

[Sparkler]

amen doug, miss you at lernerville every week!

[TCM29]

Given the high cost of racing and the number of tracks in existence (along with all the touring series), I'm surprised the car counts are as good as they are. Pavement tracks are really in a bad way in Western PA even with Lake Erie closed. Motordrome does not have enough late models for a single heat race these days.

Edited by TCM29, 14 August 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[starboyshady]

I disagree on the shock deal .... They should let you run what you have and not outlaw what we have already purchased ....what would we do with them ? Stuck for 3-4 grand and BE FORCED to buy bilstiens??? How bout adding a incentive if you win on them ? ( take this from the money bilstien paid you the promoter) Then people can decide if that is what they WANT to do , NOT FORCED

[BRC27]

So Starboyshady is one of those guys that competes with money!  you just admitted to running a 3k dollar shock.  now in Super Lates I could see letting everyone run whatever.  if you can't afford to be up there, then Run limited late.  But if you are running a 3k dollar shock package in Street stock then that's a little much.  There's a difference between being competitive and buying a trophy

[BaconBits]

People still don't understand the crate late model concept. The ONLY thing that FASTRAK/RUSH/Nesmith, etc... EVER promised was a more affordable engine. Nothing else. If you or anybody else got into the class thinking it was going to be some kind of "cheap" racing,  you're/they're very naïve.

Edited by BaconBits, 17 August 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[94.3-RADRACER]

shocks are everything anymore. we used to adjust the cars by moving bars, now it is by adjusting shocks. in the last couple years, the advancements have been incredible. speed costs money, and if your going to play with the big boys, they don't give a shit if you can afford them. crates are pretty damn fast anymore, and any advantage you can get, you go for it...

[Paul55]

shocks are everything anymore. we used to adjust the cars by moving bars, now it is by adjusting shocks. in the last couple years, the advancements have been incredible. speed costs money, and if your going to play with the big boys, they don't give a shit if you can afford them. crates are pretty damn fast anymore, and any advantage you can get, you go for it...

yup u ain't kidding. We did buy a set of bilsteins and are running them on one ofour cars. So far they seem decent only really got one night on them

Edited by Paul55, 17 August 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[racer777]

People still don't understand the crate late model concept. The ONLY thing that FASTRAK/RUSH/Nesmith, etc... EVER promised was a more affordable engine. Nothing else. If you or anybody else got into the class thinking it was going to be some kind of "cheap" racing,  you're/they're very naïve.

True. But ... even the world of outlaws has a shock restrictions. So that being said playing devils advocate shouldn't the crate series have stricter rules ? Personally I say yes. But that is always gonna be debated.

Edited by racer777, 17 August 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[94.3-RADRACER]

if they started out that way, i'll agree.........but now, we buy used lm's, or new ones, used shocks,or new ones.......basicly, everybody has double hangig in their trailer. nobody will get rid of their stuff,if nobody needs it. I didn't start out with new shit, bought some used and refreshed them. bought better stuff every year, as I could afford it. now I have the best equipment I've ever had, and they want us to get rid of it for pennies.....a lot of us earned what we have. you want bilsteens, buy them. like lernerville making a great class of stocks run crates........if you want one, run one. not make teams buy them.