58 replies to this topic

[racer777]

if they started out that way, i'll agree.........but now, we buy used lm's, or new ones, used shocks,or new ones.......basicly, everybody has double hangig in their trailer. nobody will get rid of their stuff,if nobody needs it. I didn't start out with new shit, bought some used and refreshed them. bought better stuff every year, as I could afford it. now I have the best equipment I've ever had, and they want us to get rid of it for pennies.....a lot of us earned what we have. you want bilsteens, buy them. like lernerville making a great class of stocks run crates........if you want one, run one. not make teams buy them.

I completely agree.wish it would've started out that way but the horse is out of the barn. It is what it is.both shocks are competitive. So as long as that's the case there is no need to make any changes. The options and incentive programs make it interesting.

Edited by racer777, 17 August 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[starboyshady]

Brc27 .... No , that is not what I said . I probably would be better off on a "spec" shock that has 0 adjustments on them . It's way to easy to adjust yourself out of the race ...... With a few wrong turns on the adjuster.... I said that it isn't right to be "forced" to buy something that somebody is getting a kickback from .it is too late to change now after people bought stuff that is going to be made obsolete

[BRC27]

So then are you suggesting that we continue to allow everything to get way out of hand?  Because if we keep going this way, then weekly dirt track racing will go the way of the dodo.  Im not suggesting changing the rules in the middle of the season like nascar or even for the start of 2016.  Obviously give the guys some notice.  Say 2017 this is what we are going to do to try and keep costs down for drivers and make for better competition and excitement for the fans.

 

I ran Pure Stock at AMP.  Their rules were pretty ridiculous if you ask me.  But I built my car to their rules.  My Dad and Pap who both raced back in the 80's and 90's said that back then that class was called street stock. and the street stocks now would be considered semi lates or super stocks.  Pure Stocks were what they said they were.  Pure Stock!   It's getting out of hand for those lower classes.  Hell you have just as much in a street stock as you do in a Late model anymore.  The only difference between them any more is a Clip, what rear end you're allowed to run and a cubic inch rule that not everyone follows.

 

IMO, I feel like tracks need to reign it in a bit.  racing shouldn't be about who has the best sponsors or the deepest pockets.  It should be about the driver and how well he maintains his car and his set up.  More drivers will show up if they feel they have an equal chance of winning each week.  Let the late models run wild with exotic shocks and set ups.  but a stock car is just that!  let it be stock.  let people improve on some things.  but don't get carried away and open the flood gates.  I strongly believe that Bert transmissions don't belong on a street stock.  And a Pure Stock shouldn't have a Triple disc.  Just my opinion.

[starboyshady]

I was talking about Crate Latemodels , that they are trying to change what you already have , these parts already bought . If it was like this from the beginning that would be fine , but not MAKE YOU BUY SOME SHOCK YOU DO NOT NEED , so they get a kick back is just WRONG .

[starboyshady]

You are talking about rules being opened up & I'm talking about them forcing you to buy from their people so they get paid ..... It's called strong arming , the mafia been doing this for a long time , not a new concept

[The Legend]

Yes but the can require a specified valving in the shocks everyone already has that's not a big deal because they need rebuilt anyway.

[BRC27]

No I know this is not a new concept it's been happening for years.  I feel this is what's hurting car counts all around.  Like I said earlier.  it's cost and the fact that tracks are opening up their rules to try and please everyone.  all it's done is drive up the costs and reduce the number of guys that try to compete.

 

I agree with Legend.  control what rates your shocks can be within a range.  and make that the same for everyone.  Don't know how that'd work with adjustable shocks.  I don't know enough about them.

[LM RACING]

You are talking about rules being opened up & I'm talking about them forcing you to buy from their people so they get paid ..... It's called strong arming , the mafia been doing this for a long time , not a new concept

they should have set a date to sign up with what shocks you have. Then give you 2 years to buy the ones they require so as they bend or blow out you can replace them with the bilstiens. Or also have the time to sell them. If you dont have them registered and you get caught you lose. The shocks have been pretty competitive so that would be a way to phase the others out without total loss. Just wishful thinking.

[starboyshady]

Guys have won on Bilsteins , so they do not have to force the others shocks from the series . If a Bilstein car hadn't have WON yet , you could use the "making it even " argument . But the way that it is it is being done to take YOUR MONEY , so they can get paid . LONG HORN or LANNIGAN CLUB 29 or BLOOMQUIST can offer them a bigger kick back than the shock people did ..... So , if they get involved with Rush and pay them ..... You all will be ok with having to buy a "new" car ???? Your Rocket or MastersBuilt or GRT IS NOW ILLEGAL ....

[Cool1]

If they can tell you what motor, tires, shocks, and whatever else, doesn't sound so far fetched, does it?

Edited by Cool1, 20 August 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[Skull]

It seems like the general concensus is that the SLM and SBLM counts are down, and they are. But consider the fact that since there are three separate and distinct classes of those cars that every track in the region hosts, other than Sharon and MRP, what do expect?

Talk until you are blue in the face, but the crate LM's draw money and teams away from both the Supers and SBLM's.
They have proven to be nearly as expensive, but race for considerably less money. Everyone thought they would be a feeder class, but other than a handful of teams, it hasn't turned out that way. In fact, many of the biggest winners field Supers, too.

So here we are, 8 to 10 years down the road and all we have is another expensive support division no different than EMOD's and Pro Stocks. Back gate receipt generators that don't bring in a crowd on their own, but are a promoters wet dream. What pisses me off is the endless promotion of the whole crate conept being presented as the savior of the sport, when the fact is that it seems to cause more issues than it solves. Case in point, Miss Vikki getting her grimy hands in the Lernerville Stocks. I really hope the Tomson's veto that shit, because it could very well kill a great and competitive class.

[TCM29]

40 years ago a friend made this statement regarding limited racing divisions- "The only thing limited is the purse". It might just be a coincidence, but that move sure destroyed pavement racing in Western PA when the headline drivers, cars, and fans left in droves, never to return.

[LM63]

I learned a long time ago that even trying to make a point on this board about CLM's is pointless. A certian group of you don't like crates period and another few can't stand Vicki. Whatever.

One thing that cannot be disputed is that I and a whole lot of other people i know who race crate lates wouldn't be racing at all if it wasn't for the division period. I have raced crate lates for 10 yrs now and have had all of three engines. The first two 602's were never touched and are probably still running in someones car at DIS. My 604 was freshened and blueprinted after the first year but since has had a leak down test done and was told to run it another year. So on the 604 alone I have 8500 in it. 3 yrs on it. Thats 2800 and change per year plus the cost of valve springs each year. Total I have around 15,000 in motors for 10 yrs running crate lates. You do the math..... I'm not sure what type of steel blocks are running up yalls way but down this way the guys running up front have 20,000 dollar plus engines in there cars and they need rebult all the time just like the SLM's do.

[94.3-RADRACER]

I will say one thing, at least for a decent purse we show up......what 37 at lernerville for 1200 bucks. tri-city had 38 or so cars for 2000. 27 for 800. and the lernerville race was probably one of the most exciting finishes the track had all year. lernerville is there own worst enemy.....ump tires keeps the lm's away. crate only in stocks is stupid too....run what ya have. it's working. anybody that goes to a rush touring show knows, your gonna have a dang good race. a ton of good cars, and good racing. weare probably getting a superlate motor next year, and talked about places to race. lernerville would be a possibility, but not with ump tires. stateline/eriez pay 1500 o win, and 400 for tenth, as to why they get full fields, plus open tire rule. look at marion center, and dog hollow, as they both get why more lm's than the ville. tires are the reason there too. any track on a island will lose cars, no matter how good your track is..

[TCM29]

I've given a lot of thought to the subject of car counts over the past couple of weeks, and after attending two consecutive weeks at Lernerville, have come to the conclusion that 15 car features are adequate, as long as they are competitive, high quality entrants like I have seen. The 8-9 cars they are short (in the headline divisions) would likely be back markers anyway, with the usual cautions. There has been great racing in all divisions, and the crowd was excellent. The exciting Sportsman class did not disappoint, and had a full field. Last night the races were over at 10PM; I recall back in the day Don Martin saying he wanted to get the fans home in time to watch Johnny Carson (which aired at 11:30). I hope the new owners fix the place up, as the stands look pretty weathered; it would seem to me that with all the race tracks closed that aluminum seats would be out there somewhere, then again, they are in the scrap business so they can likely find them. A parking lot crew would also be a plus to eliminate the train wreck parking they now have. 

[splitbacks]

has anyone noticed the winning pay day for a "big race"  A track in 1996 offered up $3000 to win for a big 30 or 40 lap non sanctioned sprint, big block, or late model race.  They are still paying out the same.  Almost 20 after the big racing rebirth that saw everyone and their brother buy a car, tracks reopening or being built, and fans coming to the track in droves track owners still pay relatively the same amount.  Hell, they should be paying $2000 to win every week for a headline class like sprints, mods, or lates, but they still pay 1200 to 1500.  

All this happened and the cost of racing went up, gas prices fluctuated, the economy tanked, and track owners raised ticket prices for fans $3 to $4.  These guys have no incentive to run

Edited by splitbacks, 26 August 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[The Legend]

Tracks are already going out of business and you liberals want to raise payouts

[NotToday]

Yep they are still paying the same, yet everyone and their brother thinks they need a stacker and toter to compete. I have never see that combination make a car faster. So they blow 100k just to tow then bitch about car counts, and how expensive everthing is. Go figure......

[The Legend]

That's just it , crates are almost as fast as super with 400 hp yet supposedly you need a spread bore Chevy or an ry45 ford .... That's a Joke 700 hp can win dam near anywhere and 800 can win absolutely anywhere. You don't need to buy a club 29 ready to go you can buy a chassis and build it your self .... You don't need to pay a guru you can spend the time and figure it out on your own. Let's say for instance Kevin rumley sells his secret left rear set up for 75k ... And one guy at your local track gets it and wins every race until another guy gets it .... How is the track making more money ??? So how do you expect them to increase pay to cover your magic left rear ??? Let's say Trex raises the price 10% well I pass that on to the customer and in your world since I'm charging more for the deck I should be paying worker more too ... The tracks are getting less fans and less cars and paying the same as they always did .... That means tracks are making less than ever. Even though they raised prices their expenses also went up . Run a business sometime and get a damn clue ...

[snooky]

An average working stiff can't afford to build, maintain and race a car these days. Also, most families can't afford the gate to go watch. Also, the fact that we are far afield from 'stock car' racing takes some of the link to what people drive every day. The thrill is gone.