27 replies to this topic

[jo73]

I have always made my feelings known about crate racing. I also have said I think it is a good deal for late model guys that can no longer compete $$$ wise with some teams in the SLM ranks. Again, I have had the desire to get back in and have been doing some research as to my available options. For a longgg time I have heard about how all these motors are spec and sealed and on and on. In questioning individuals I am in shock about the cost of a top of the line crate motor with all the bells and whistles. Mr. Hibbard, I believe you are the person in charge at race 1. Correct ? If so, what is the out the door price for your ultimate crate motor ? I am not trying to start another drag out crate debate. I'd just like to understand what I would be getting for the cost of such a motor ?

[Cool1]

Very legitimate question, wonder what the answer will be?

[Crusty1]

I have always made my feelings known about crate racing. I also have said I think it is a good deal for late model guys that can no longer compete $$$ wise with some teams in the SLM ranks. Again, I have had the desire to get back in and have been doing some research as to my available options. For a longgg time I have heard about how all these motors are spec and sealed and on and on. In questioning individuals I am in shock about the cost of a top of the line crate motor with all the bells and whistles. Mr. Hibbard, I believe you are the person in charge at race 1. Correct ? If so, what is the out the door price for your ultimate crate motor ? I am not trying to start another drag out crate debate. I'd just like to understand what I would be getting for the cost of such a motor ?

jo if your not trying to stir the pot (again) go on line and look, a 604 motor is $6,500.00. If you want it blue printed and Dyno $7,200.00 then add all the parts you want, just like you have to do when you have a motor custom built.

[714d]

People who say they have, for example, $12k in a crate motor are usually giving you the total investment turnkey. It doesn't take long when you include a $2500 pulley system and $1500 carb $1000 headers, etc. to get every last horsepower milked out. Under all that, it's still the same $7000 engine.

[jo73]

714... your close to the number I was told you will have between the rails. To be honest if true I am in shock. That is why I posted the question to Mr Hibbard

[Crusty1]

714... your close to the number I was told you will have between the rails. To be honest if true I am in shock. That is why I posted the question to Mr Hibbard

Just to stir the pot.

[sicario]

Wait a minute, I thought the crap coming from RUSH always said $5000, now it's $7000 when you get down to it. That also doesn't take into account suspension which isn't regulated so it may cost $5000 or $7000.... or whatever for the motor but money still wins and at the end of the day it's semi "affordable" to run but not so much to compete. Wonder what the cost is of an econo late like out east?

[weinerdog]

if your not trying to drag out another crate debate why don't you send Mr. Hibbard an email with your questions.

[porter16b]

Out the door price is easily 10 to 12k with all the bells and whistles,top of the line stuff. But there are cheaper "packages" that win races weekly.

[jo73]

why. simple, let the truth be told. I don't care who is going to dish on the facts. I was told a top of the line crate motor with all the bells and whistles is 13,000.00 You call it whatever you want. I was looking to come over to the dark side. If you think guys are not spending this, then tell me were to go. But, again, I have been told that blueprinting, oils, coolants, pulley systems for less drag, carbs. and on and on is driving the price of these crate motors. I've been told you can have as much as a 100HP difference. He is race 1, right. He advertise's on top of this page , right.  LMAO. I remember when people said that Miley's engine was right out of the crate. Do some research, you mite be quite surprised or shocked as in my case. I'm not looking to get into a pissing match with him or anyone.

[D1RT]

It may be a long shot but here's a novel idea that might just work to get the info you desire

Pull the phone out of your pocket and give him a call.

[LM63]

Thats to simple and his desire was never to get into crate racing. It's to sit behind a keyboard and type nonsense as usual!

[LM63]

And you know...    If you run a LLM you don't need a carb, pulleys, distributor, headers, etc...Those motors run without all that crap.........

[brad hibbard]

At Race-1 we work our estimates/quotes backwards from most retailers.

We start at the top with the best that we can do and in our opinion the best components.

We also take the request for "everything" very literal.

Our "everything" quote is a package that you will not have to leave the garage to find even a bolt or wing nut---it is everything unless we state otherwise 

On the subject of "blueprinting" new engines---that is NOT something that we feel is necessary.

We run all engines in a controlled atmosphere and monitor all the performance functions.

IF the engine does not fall into our window of acceptance, --you do not get it.

We will start over with another unit at no charge to the customer.

With all that said --The Race-1 quoted price for a GM 604 "COMPLETE"  going into a dirt late model is $13,367

what is NOT included:

Sales Tax --If applicable

MSD Box and coil-

Oil Cooler and plumbing

upgrade to Stainless headers

There is no other associated part with the engine that you will be in search of and all parts and engine will be shipped to you any where in the 48 states

 

as an added note

Race-1 builds in pricing insurance ----the end invoice will never be higher than quoted

it is almost always less

 

on a second note

We can most certainly substitute more economical components and/or delete components that you may already have

 

$13,367 is a sticker shock to most racers but, we have found that people appreciate knowing where the top is rather than starting at $6K and just keep adding to the bottom line

 

Please Please Please---compare apples to apples

we will be glad to send anyone an email quote with a complete breakdown of all the things we do and all the components that we use.

 

Hope this helps clear the air a bit

 

Brad Hibbard

330-540-7223

brad@race-1.com  email

www.race-1.com  website

 

[jo73]

Thank you for the information. I will tell you and people can take what they want from it. I being retired have given a great deal of thought about getting back into dirt racing with my son. You have posted helpful information to racers. I was told what guys are investing into these motors and I must say being surprised was a understatement. Again, I appreciate your help.

[brad hibbard]

Jo73,

I missed the part where you are referring to claims of 100HP difference in engines

I promise you that in a "legal" engine that is not accurate.

 

there are engines that are better than others but the swing in the ENGINE itself is less than 20 providing it has adequate seal and there are no mechanical issues

 

 

Note:

I said the "engine"

that is Not fuel, carbs, spacers, air cleaners, headers etc. etc.

 

another topic of discussion is pumps

we constantly here about pumps (power steering, water, fuel) that make X amount of power

NO pump makes power---some pumps use less power than others to operate but they all take power

 

the rest of the bolt on components in some way will influence power but on a scale from the most generic to the best powerful is no where near 100 HP

fuel is a major influence on power but even adding in the fuel options from top to bottom your number is exaggerated

 

the true difference in these cars is from the driver, set-up and attitude not what is under the hood

we commonly supply top of the line components and services but this is in an effort to keep the driver and crew focused on the chassis and not to be bothered with engine issues.

 

 

Brad

[jo73]

I to didn't believe the 100hp difference. builders are builders and if someone would come up with that kind of difference people would have to start looking at external changes/bolt on's.

[FanJim24]

Well, I learned something from the conversation. IDK, if I will use the knowledge, but I know more than I did.  

[Hotrod11h]

My opinion of crates is higher than was once Fremont started a 602 class but I still am not huge fan. I will say I don't care for rules of Nesmith/ultimate etc. I think shocks & headers should be cheap and not expensive nor exotic. $150-200 for set of headers is plenty. Same I think for shocks. Crate class started to keep motors reasonable, but other items should have been restricted as well to keep costs down. Not a fan of specific tire either. Let them choose.... AR 56, D55, LM40 etc as long as punches correct numbers

[K.H.]

A 604 crate motor is $6500, Carb around $1000, Schoenfeld headers $300. Builders are not allowed to Bore,Deck or any other blueprinting stuff.
You should be able to put on a fuel,power steering and water pump along with pulleys and belts for under $700. Dyno, if you want it a few hundred.
Thats over $5000 less than $13367