52 replies to this topic

[dirtstudent2]

The first which can hurt tracks and promoters is not accepting that fans in the stands and pits are your customers and not those who race at your track.

 

The second is understanding and accepting those in the pits who pay for the cost of race cars and have their butts in the seat are not customers.

 

The third is to understand to support your car owners and drivers, you must never make a rule you cannot enforce.

 

The fourth thing is to realize not being fans or customers car owners and drivers, who invest in your track the same as investors anywhere, must not be charged high fees with no return on investment.

 

 

 

As investors do anywhere in anything, after seeing excessive loss they will either quit investing or move on to other investments.  When you loose your back gate investors, you loose both fans in the stands and fans in the pits supporting their favorite car or driver..

 

 

[Cool1]

Delete!

Edited by Cool1, 24 April 2017 - 12:50 PM.

[bhhracing]

Another novel congratulations.

[sicario]

Number of classes and payouts are my biggest gripe around here. How many classes run at Port and the Grove? They pay a ton to win at the grove and have added funds to go with their handicap system. They have what, four classes and 3 types of car? That allows them to pay so much. And in that part of the state your choice to class is basically, sprint, late, & stock. They don't have 3 subdivisions of 6 different classes and the tracks only run a few classes so it yields higher payouts and within that area, higher car counts. They have differing classes of sprints and lates but there is opportunity for advancement with current equipment and minor upgrades there unlike here with RUSH and they're traveling circus.

Edited by sicario, 24 April 2017 - 05:37 PM.

[Walt Wimer]

As I have long said, most tracks in the western PA area have too many classes!!   Three or four classes is all any track should have!!  So far car counts this year have been mostly disappointing except for the Lernerville and Stateline openers. Except for the Stateline opener, which was a rain-out special from last year, and the ULMS & Lucas sanctioned races, I don't think there has been a Late Model race yet with more than 14 cars!!  That is reason for concern!!

 

Walt

[sicario]

As I have long said, most tracks in the western PA area have too many classes!!   Three or four classes is all any track should have!!  So far car counts this year have been mostly disappointing except for the Lernerville and Stateline openers. Except for the Stateline opener, which was a rain-out special from last year, and the ULMS & Lucas sanctioned races, I don't think there has been a Late Model race yet with more than 14 cars!!  That is reason for concern!!

 

Walt

I agree 100% I think that many local tracks have too many classes. With the addition of crate sprints, I wonder how many cars are being lost from the existing classes. I know Bruce Powell sold his emod and bought one of the sprints. Within this region there are 3 classes for sprints, 3 classes for late models, 3 for modifieds, 3 for emods, and god knows how many different tracks have their own rules for stock cars. That's at least 13 classes to choose from region wide. Some are new teams but a lot of them aren't. Sharon dropping to 4 classes is nice to see but it is a weak lineup. As much as I love big blocks having them as the top class is rough because with the exception of a few guys that run lernerville like Swartzlander, Williamson, Krummert, and Shingledecker they're really aren't many more cars to grab regardless of the payout. Seeing Statelines 7 classes is pretty crazy

Edited by sicario, 24 April 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[longtimeracefan101]

My personal opinion. Vicki is cornering the raceing here and killing it

[Wolfie29]

I totally agree with ya longtimeracefan101 about Vicki...She has her hand in everything and is ruining it for everyone....She got her nose in Jennerstown now with their pavement late models and am sitting back and waiting to see how many cars they actually get weekly?...I'm not a stock car pavement guy at all but with J-town being my hometown track I still keep up with the results even though I don't go there...I really don't think Vicki's Asphalt Rush Series will bring in anymore cars than they did before because Number 1 they don't pay enough money to go there and race and wear a set of tires out and Number 2 asphalt late models are a dead and lost class in Western,PA and Number 3 alot of the guys that ran there back when there were Motordrome and them running they had two nights to race but alot of them either quit racing or built dirt cars when Motordrome and J-town both had their own individual problems ...I know they lost Jayme and Tommy Beck to the dirt tracks because there's too much favortism up there and they have their favorites and literally ran Jayme out of there because Mr.Barry Awtey gets his own way which is totally bias and bullshit !

Edited by Wolfie29, 24 April 2017 - 10:16 PM.

[Sprintdudes]

As I have long said, most tracks in the western PA area have too many classes!!   Three or four classes is all any track should have!!  So far car counts this year have been mostly disappointing except for the Lernerville and Stateline openers. Except for the Stateline opener, which was a rain-out special from last year, and the ULMS & Lucas sanctioned races, I don't think there has been a Late Model race yet with more than 14 cars!!  That is reason for concern!!

 

Walt

What promoters can't realize is that there are "x" amount of racers in our area.  Doesn't matter the division, the "x" stays the same.   8 different "divisions" in our area between ALL classes compared to 16 different divisions in ALL classes makes a huge difference.  Car counts are low in most classes because of this.  You only have "x" amount of racers!!!   Add more classes, divide the "x" amount of racers between all of the classes!  Every year it seems to get worse!

[Walt Wimer]

Good Math!!!  Cut down the classes and you will have more cars per class in the remaining classes.  And better racing for the fans.  I am seeing more and more support classes at different tracks with less than 10 cars a night. Even a couple of ones with 4-6 cars!!

 

Walt

[jo73]

promotors in western pa have been on this idea of 4-6-8 extra cars thru my back gate raises my profit margin. Or for some reduces there lose. For every car in the back gate you may get lets say 4 pit passes, 120.00. Maybe parents/friends in the front gate another 6. 70 to 90 extra bucks. I don't include concessions only because of the variables. I believe more than not these extra classes are running for a trophy. On a weekly basis it is nothing more than a headache for the fans that come to see the headliner. On a yearly schedule it makes a promotor look more closely. A 10 race season may bring another 2000.00 to his pocket.

 

This alone is one of the reasons I believe has made Lernerville so strong for so many years. No bullsh*t classes that drag on and on. Paying 3 headline divisions weekly and being in line with most other speedways in the area. I have often wondered what would happen if lernerville up'd there purse structure like the  central pa sprint car purses, or Hagerstown for the SLM, or Grandview for the mods. With today's costs would it make more sense to do so. Pull in those out of towners. A local SLM team may say we will sit for 2 weeks and wait to race lernerville every 3rd week for a larger piece of the pie. Guys could still venture out to other speedways but few do that today. It's all about the cost and mostly they are out of control. Keep your sportman guys and be on your way home by 10.

[94.3-RADRACER]

again, blaming vicki for promoters complete failure is just stupid......they have done nothing to help advance their divisions, including the big three........no cost savings, from motors, to tires. no rules to cut costs, blame your home track........but, with rush now firmly in place, you'll have your building ground for the big three in every division. get rid of the 305's, 358's, and now build. it has worked for lm's, and will for other divisions too. she gives the racers an affordable alternative your promoters were to lazy to do themselves........blame them, whiles her thinking gets results...

[FanJim24]

Reducing the total number of divisions in the area makes a lot of sense to me. I do like to get more than my money's worth of racing, so having 4-6 features in a night doesn't bother me, or at least it didn't when I didn't have work at 7 AM the following morning. I really like the Stampede, it approaches too much racing for me. I'm not going to fault a track for running a lot of divisions in a night, but that is getting nearly impossible anyway. But I think you've all hit the nail on the head with how many support and starter classes there are. Ironically, most of them started as low cost options. 

 

Back in the day North Hills and Lernerville had close ties and, allowing for the different track sizes, did a lot of the same things. It allowed some uniformity. The question is, how to get cooperation between the owners/promoters/GMs of the various tracks? Even tracks that ran the same night didn't just cut each others' throats for the sake of it, although Don Martin did buy Butler to shut it down.  

[ramey36]

Dick Berggren at Speedway Illustrated writes the same article every year explaining why some of the New England tracks get a full field of cars and full stands even on random Tuesday night regular shows.

 

I don't know why local promoters don't follow his recommendations.

 

Two or three classes max. Enforceable rules but not too many. Enforce consistently, even when the track owners kid cheats. Great concessions and clean restrooms. If the wife hates going because of the one porta-john overflowing...

 

ramey

[94.3-RADRACER]

wish tracks would run on a tuesday or wednesday.......

[sicario]

My issue with RUSH is tat I doubt anyone from the Modified class or the new sprint class will go to any higher class. It's not necessarily bringing in new racers and to be quite frank the sprint class and pro mods are not needed. The economod class has been great at Raceway 7, Sharon, & Eriez. So that took existing economods and drivers from other classes as did the sprint class. If it was legitimately a starter class then okay but they really aren't for the most part. Rush does pay well and take care of their drivers but it so ungodly boring that unless you or someone you know races it nobody cares. I agree that 358's can go and Rush mods can take it's place because 358's don't really feed the big block class here anyway but I don't see the RM's doing that either. But again, it's another class coming in for the outgoing class. Lateral moves won't solve anything either.

Edited by sicario, 25 April 2017 - 11:16 AM.

[FanJim24]

Dick Berggren at Speedway Illustrated writes the same article every year explaining why some of the New England tracks get a full field of cars and full stands even on random Tuesday night regular shows.

 

I don't know why local promoters don't follow his recommendations.

 

Two or three classes max. Enforceable rules but not too many. Enforce consistently, even when the track owners kid cheats. Great concessions and clean restrooms. If the wife hates going because of the one porta-john overflowing...

 

ramey

If I go to a track that only runs 2-3 classes I had better have paid less than $10, I'm thinking closer to $6, or it had better be at least 50 laps each class. If it's a weekly show, and only has 2 classes my first time will be my last. 

[ramey36]

Williams Grove...

[BaconBits]

If I go to a track that only runs 2-3 classes I had better have paid less than $10, I'm thinking closer to $6, or it had better be at least 50 laps each class. If it's a weekly show, and only has 2 classes my first time will be my last. 

Don't ever go out east, then. You'll hate it.

[FanJim24]

My issue with RUSH is tat I doubt anyone from the Modified class or the new sprint class will go to any higher class. It's not necessarily bringing in new racers and to be quite frank the sprint class and pro mods are not needed. The economod class has been great at Raceway 7, Sharon, & Eriez. So that took existing economods and drivers from other classes as did the sprint class. If it was legitimately a starter class then okay but they really aren't for the most part. Rush does pay well and take care of their drivers but it so ungodly boring that unless you or someone you know races it nobody cares.

I was telling my daughter at Lernerville Friday, that the sportsman modifieds was supposed to be an entry level class, but that no one has ever moved up and some have moved down. It's become kind of a black hole that no one escapes.  But now some of them can move up to crate sprints. Sprint cars with no throttle response, that should be fun.