46 replies to this topic

[sicario]

That's my issue, slick is okay but running 18's in the heats is horrible. 3 of the 4 sprint races i've seen there on the new surface have been won the same way, running the wall and gone. The rest of the field and races are meh because the sprints blow the top off. Watering on top of that surface gives you maybe 10 laps tops. Looking at the lap times over the last 10 laps with guys speeding up etc you could tell it rubbered up.

[GEARHEAD]

They need to pay Tom Helfrich to come in as a consultant and point them in the right direction. His clay is simply incredible, there's not one pebble in it, just organic materials like wood chips. Him and Bob Sargent are the best preppers in the country, every track can learn something from those guys. I don't understand why tracks are reluctant to ask for help.

[sicario]

That's a good point. They def need to add someone to help or try adding something to the track. Tracks don't seem to be able to put aside their egos or take criticism, granted it's usually not constructive, and learn from it to better themselves. If it's not their idea then they say no way. Rick has been wanting to keep putting more and more water into the track but then Dave rolls it or has rick roll it and seals it right before the race so it's irrelevant. I think they should try a little less water and run more push trucks, and heavy equipment on it instead of the roller. Yesterday, however, wasn't the day to try it. Saturday would've been fine to try but then the sprint drivers would've had an absolute hissy if the track wasn't a skating rink smooth wise. It's an uphill battle for sure but not impossible. The saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Edited by sicario, 03 July 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[GEARHEAD]

That's a good point. They def need to add someone to help or try adding something to the track. Tracks don't seem to be able to put aside their egos or take criticism, granted it's usually not constructive, and learn from it to better themselves. If it's not their idea then they say no way. Rick has been wanting to keep putting more and more water into the track but then Dave rolls it or has rick roll it and seals it right before the race so it's irrelevant. I think they should try a little less water and run more push trucks, and heavy equipment on it instead of the roller. Yesterday, however, wasn't the day to try it. Saturday would've been fine to try but then the sprint drivers would've had an absolute hissy if the track wasn't a skating rink smooth wise. It's an uphill battle for sure but not impossible. The saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

And do these guys who prep these tracks ever go to other racetracks to see how they do things? When you think of awesome tracks prep you think about Macon, FALS, Tri-State, Knoxville, Attica, I-80...I'm sure that if they traveled to these other places the folks there would be willing to speak to them. The guys who work on these tracks are generally good folks and aren't afraid to pass on their knowledge. Jacksonville Speedway brought Sarge in to help them with their first couple couple Summernantionals shows. They were a huge hit and they learned from Sarge how to prep the track and they run that show on their own now. There's no room for ego's in business, you have to ask questions and continuously gather knowledge if you want to be the best at what you do. These track prep guys need to remember that.

Edited by GEARHEAD, 03 July 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[jo73]

Everybody's a genius. I've worked in the light excavation work for the last 35 yrs. Soil from one spot to another is night and day. The water table in the ground is what determines if your digging good or bad soil. It also determines cost to the consumer, (Sharon). I will say, I can only give this explanation of using the roller. It squeeze's all the moisture out of the surface and packs it tight. Advantage ! They don't have to bring new soil in as often as they would have to if there was moisture in the top. Sure it may be dusty, but there not throwing it out over the fence or places it can't be graded back into the track. GOOD clay is not easy to find, and if the supplier understands what your plans for it are, the price will be escalated. Cost per truck load. #1 distance to travel. 23 ton per truck. 500.00 material plus travel. Add that up times 30 to 40 loads. Lot of expense before the gates ever open. 

[Hot Dog]

Everybody's a genius. I've worked in the light excavation work for the last 35 yrs. Soil from one spot to another is night and day. The water table in the ground is what determines if your digging good or bad soil. It also determines cost to the consumer, (Sharon). I will say, I can only give this explanation of using the roller. It squeeze's all the moisture out of the surface and packs it tight. Advantage ! They don't have to bring new soil in as often as they would have to if there was moisture in the top. Sure it may be dusty, but there not throwing it out over the fence or places it can't be graded back into the track. GOOD clay is not easy to find, and if the supplier understands what your plans for it are, the price will be escalated. Cost per truck load. #1 distance to travel. 23 ton per truck. 500.00 material plus travel. Add that up times 30 to 40 loads. Lot of expense before the gates ever open. 

Its great clay. They just got it too wet a few times last year and it was miserable rough. They started using the roller to combat but it makes it rubber up for the big shows

Edited by Hot Dog, 03 July 2018 - 12:10 PM.

[racefan62]

Here's what some tracks in the area are using : TrackMoist

[sicario]

Here's what some tracks in the area are using : TrackMoist

The stuff at rolling wheels with the wax works very very well. I'd love to see tracks around here use something like this but we can't have too much grip or we'll get complaints about that too. See, isn't running a track fun?? 😀😀

[BaconBits]

The stuff at rolling wheels with the wax works very very well. I'd love to see tracks around here use something like this but we can't have too much grip or we'll get complaints about that too. See, isn't running a track fun?? 😀😀

Rolling Wheels hasnt run in a year, and the last few times it did run it was absurdly dusty. WTF are you even taking about?

Edited by BaconBits, 03 July 2018 - 06:41 PM.

[sicario]

Whatever I saw on mav tv, granted it was a few years back when mccreadie was running the #4 big block, looked just fine to me. Specifically the track looked good when the outlaws where there and frankly I don't think it was dusty during the televised events i saw. And the best part was that the track wasn't a skating rink. This would be what i'm referencing

Edited by sicario, 03 July 2018 - 07:00 PM.

[racefan62]

The "SYNDI" track surface for dirt track racing, did work to help keep SOME dust down. It did fail for health reasons. Many drivers and spectators, complained of eye irritation (burning) from the dust. The wax buildup from the material, made cleaning up even harder.

 

Some tracks that were using this material, have already gone back to dirt or clay.

Edited by racefan62, 03 July 2018 - 08:43 PM.

[sicario]

The "SYNDI" track surface for dirt track racing, did work to help keep SOME dust down. It did fail for health reasons. Many drivers and spectators, complained of eye irritation (burning) from the dust. The wax buildup from the material, made cleaning up even harder.
 
Some tracks that were using this material, have already gone back to dirt or clay.

Interesting. I thought it produced pretty good racing but i can see wax being problematic and if it's a health concern then you def can't be using it. I didn't know that. The other stuff you put a link to, do you know of any tracks specifically that use it?

[BaconBits]

They first tested it at Brewerton. It was ludicrously hard on tires and made the dust worse they peeled it off within a week or two, but it took damn near a year to actually get rid of it it. They changed the formula some for the Wheels, but I wasnt a hit there either.

Its supposed to be developed for that CNYRP project that Glenn Donnelly has going on, but that project is never going to happen, so the Syndi stuff is more or less dead in the water.

[sicario]

I know at one point Eriez used soap in their water for the track. Idk if it helped or not and I don't think they still do. I would also be interested to see if there's a difference in performance on certain additives based on whether the track is clay or dirt. I feel like dirt is typically more consistent but the clay is much easier on tires. It's also frustrating because there are good clat facilities region wide, and then tbere's sharon. That's why I asked earlier what Lernerville does differently because they don't have this troubld. And also, Tri-city got the same clay this season as well which will be ingeresting to watcg

[bhhracing]

Lernerville uses stay wet track conditioner from VP racing fuels. I know Tyler County and roaring knob are also using a track conditioner at one time over the past couple years not sure if they are still using it or not. My friend was a rep from VP and told me which tracks had interest in their product.

Edited by bhhracing, 03 July 2018 - 11:09 PM.

[march66]

Latrobe used to put lestoil in their water, thought it was a joke until I seen then doing it!  

[blue by you]

good old fashion corn field clay is all you need.....makes a driver out of everybody.

[23wellerfan31]

Lernerville uses stay wet track conditioner from VP racing fuels. I know Tyler County and roaring knob are also using a track conditioner at one time over the past couple years not sure if they are still using it or not. My friend was a rep from VP and told me which tracks had interest in their product.

I know Stateline has been using it.  Seen a couple buckets of it in the barn 2 weeks ago. 

[bhhracing]

Our sales rep from VP said one 55-gallon drum will last a track a whole year just about. As soon as you start putting the stuff into the surface and mixing it in with a dirt it stays in there and you will have to use less after every application. I know it's pretty expensive but it pays off down the road.

[sicario]

good old fashion corn field clay is all you need.....makes a driver out of everybody.

This may be the way to go, at least farmers would be able to sell something then....