Jump to content





Photo

A question just for fun and trying to learn


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 13 May 2021 - 09:52 AM

Does lowering the spring rate makes it easier for your chassis to work as it did before track grip was reduced.

 

I think the answer is yes and would like to see if others agree.

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 





 

#2 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 17 May 2021 - 09:08 AM

Does lowering the spring rate makes it easier for your chassis to work as it did before track grip was reduced?

 

I think the answer is yes and would like to see if others agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do springs do?

 

Answer IMHO:  Excluding multiple a spring at any corner of the chassis will set the limit of chassis travel within it's ability to expand and be compressed.

    And because weaker springs will compress the same 1" caring lighter loads without other things limiting chassis travel they set ride height at each corner. 

    Or you can think of it as stronger springs will compress less caring the same load then weaker springs

    In total if operated within their working distance all springs do is set the limits of chassis travel and set ride height.

 

Again all of the above is to see if others might agree or disagree with it allowing me to either confirm my thoughts or learn from where and why they are in all or part not correct.

 

This does not answer my question about if spring rate change might be needed at one or more corners of the chassis when the track moves from grip towards slick.

I'm thinking if your chassis is perfect for the heat race and the track is going to move towards less grip or slick, there is just one reason you might or even should or must move toward a lower spring rate at a corner.

 

I understand in todays thinking you would only rely on a shock change to alter the timing of the application of weight.

But IMHO timing via a shock change will likely not be enough because of the basic on track change when ever grip lessens is also the reason for the questionable yes answers to my first question. 

 

And I'm just an old fart still trying to learn about how tires need to be worked to be efficient and fast all around the track.

That and I just like to hear myself talk and have fun writing in the morning with my early coffee.  :) 




#3 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 22 May 2021 - 10:05 AM

Answer to all the above BS:

 

When a track slicks up or you loose overall or individual tire grip for any reason, the only thing you know for sure is you will be going slower on the track.

Because of going slower there will be less on track forces available to you to operate your chassis.

And you will likely need to do something to make it easier for your chassis to operate or the timing of what you want your chassis to do, will be late.

 

Spring rate may or may not be a solution, it was only a thought process I started, to try to sway reader thinking.




#4 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 26 May 2021 - 08:13 AM

Why is a change to shocks not the answer or at least not the complete answer, adjusting when the track goes from grip to slick?

 

Shocks being a part of the answer which way would you go with each shock(not a specific number but more or less tie down or easier up) on each corner for:

1.  Slow Late

2.  Super Late

3.  Slow sprint

4.  Super sprint

5.  same for emod, stock, big body modified 

 

Any answers at all should be very interesting.




#5 blue by you

blue by you

    Race Fan

  • Members
  • 986 posts

Posted 26 May 2021 - 12:28 PM

I think your ready to start crewng for a nascar team......ds2. :lol:     




#6 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 27 May 2021 - 10:12 AM

Watching a fine young man like Chris Gabehart grow up with correct youngster knowledge of how things work on a kart, then off to Purdue for his engineering degree and experience and more experience on asphalt oval even watching him win the last kart Briggs and Stratton 500 at Charlotte, no never would this dumb old man qualify for something like NASCAR.

 

And I'm more then satisfied being able to talk setup and the why of it with top Sprint Car team crew chiefs.

Got to see a now little bit old friend and talk right front with him at Sharon WoO race along with left rear function and need.

That's more then enough for any old mind wandering old fart.  :)

 

 

edit:  Do you all know the difference between the 17 NOS cars front end at Sharon and the rest of the WoO regulars?

And the why of it making his car able to be so far superior up top, aside from his experience and learning how to do it up top?

 

I know the difference and I think I know the why.    :)  


Edited by dirtstudent2, 27 May 2021 - 10:18 AM.



#7 scruffy1a

scruffy1a

    Racestud Sophistocate

  • Members
  • 5,029 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 May 2021 - 03:21 PM

edit:  Do you all know the difference between the 17 NOS cars front end at Sharon and the rest of the WoO regulars?

And the why of it making his car able to be so far superior up top, aside from his experience and learning how to do it up top?

 

I know the difference and I think I know the why.    :)  

I'll take a stab at it.  The difference I notice between the 17 NOS car's front end and the rest of the WoO regulars is that the 17 car's front end is more often glancing off the wall or lap cars than the rest of the WoO regulars.  Is that what you were going for?

 

As for the why, the contents of his right shoe is heavier than the contents of his helmet?



If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just suck.

#8 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 27 May 2021 - 03:47 PM

I'll take a stab at it.  The difference I notice between the 17 NOS car's front end and the rest of the WoO regulars is that the 17 car's front end is more often glancing off the wall or lap cars than the rest of the WoO regulars.  Is that what you were going for?

 

As for the why, the contents of his right shoe is heavier than the contents of his helmet?

LOL, no not that  :)

 

edit: sent you a message


Edited by dirtstudent2, 27 May 2021 - 04:02 PM.



#9 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 02 June 2021 - 01:14 PM

Baby sitting grandson an naptime made me feel like having some fun throwing more incorrect BS out there.

There are two things involved with putting any tire into the track.
The first is how you direct effort at it.
For you to use the applied effort grip has to FIRST be available at the tire.
How you control grip is totally separate from how you use grip.
The last sentence is FACT and not understanding it is the main reason for not understanding setup.

The effort you apply to a tire comes from either located, dynamically transferred or from weight made from increased G's.

After understanding where applied weight comes from or is caused to be, next is realizing how weight is applied.

How weight is applied IMHO is a bit more complex.
When weight is applied its both pushed and leveraged to a tire and how the tire is then applied to the track will vary depending on both.
How you use your right front depends on what racing advantage your trying to gain.

Looking at the right front setup of WoO cars in the pits at Sharon, it was obvious there would be no compation for the 17 car up top.

... The why of it is if you followed my logic to this point should be obvious.


#10 Retort

Retort

    Member

  • Members
  • 640 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toledo Ohio
  • Interests:pissing off the neighbors

Posted 02 June 2021 - 07:36 PM

DS2, please take your meds.




#11 dirtstudent2

dirtstudent2

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,115 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:.

Posted 02 June 2021 - 07:48 PM

DS2, please take your meds.

yep should, Got started writing and had to end with a junk sentence just to stop for baby sitting.  

there was nothing obvious at the end but I threw that in there anyhow.  :) 

read the part where I do this for fun

 

But to especially get into understanding how the right front needs used you must take into consideration how your leveraging or not leveraging the right front into the track.  




#12 Retort

Retort

    Member

  • Members
  • 640 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toledo Ohio
  • Interests:pissing off the neighbors

Posted 02 June 2021 - 10:45 PM

yep should, Got started writing and had to end with a junk sentence just to stop for baby sitting.  

there was nothing obvious at the end but I threw that in there anyhow.  :)

read the part where I do this for fun

 

But to especially get into understanding how the right front needs used you must take into consideration how your leveraging or not leveraging the right front into the track.  

Your life may be more stress free if you took up unicycle racing.


Edited by Retort, 02 June 2021 - 10:46 PM.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users