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#1 dirtstudent2

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Posted 13 November 2021 - 05:30 PM

How do you determine the dead non working distance you have set for you in your right front shock?

I understand the why of it I'm just wondering how you determine how much is needed.

 

 

 





 

#2 3 link

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 06:58 AM

Most would pick up the phone and call their chassis manufacturer and get a working number for the smasher and set the right front with those numbers .......

If a guy is out there on his own you must determine the travel that your particular chassis can work with ....... once the frame rail/ lower control arm/bumper cover hits the dirt you've obviously gone to far/ there's also a wheel load number that will cause tire shear / what that number is  ... is different with every conversation  ..... determining travel is not as easy as letting the right front down .... you need to lift the left rear up to simulation/lower the right rear to simulation ..... then lower the right front to max travel, measure it and put that in your note book ....  newer cars are traveling farther on the right front than older cars ..... trying to use numbers for a newer car on older chassis is a struggle cause of scrub issues .... If ya walk around the pits and talk "just" right front travel with those doing it every week, you'll get as many answers and opinions as you have cars ..... it's a given opinion with "most" that the 3" and 4" numbers are what most used to work with ....  But  guys with "newer" cars are talking about 41/4 and 41/2 " numbers ...... wheel loads at all those numbers are different with with everyone (it seems) now enter the options of which bump stop to use .... you've got the christmas tree style in three different heights and 4 or 5 durometer ratings with the ability to cut to length / the roller skate bump alone or sacked with washers / and springs with all kinds of ratings  ..... limited rules eliminate some selections but smash numbers can be manipulated with every choice of bump stop .... now enter the 6" body shock vs. the 7" body /stacked spring combinations ..... this response kinka got away from your question but the dead working distance is when the right front hits the dirt ... You've gone to far !  .... this post kinda rambles on and on .... but I think that comes from reading alot of your posts !!!!! this the opinion of a race fan so what do I know !!


Edited by 3 link, 15 November 2021 - 06:59 AM.



#3 dirtstudent2

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 08:41 AM

Thank you very much.  

 

 

"now enter the options of which bump stop to use" << adds a lot to be brought into the picture.

 

 

Springs/bump stops compress weakest first to what ever compression point.  <<< sound ok? 

I think the complex compression which can be used may be more about how the compression is released to try to prevent a momentary/instant loss of grip.

 

Thinking about the back.

I'm pretty much dead set that on anything with a solid axle, all effort at the left rear is about trying to maintain or to gain time before the left rear unloads at the moment of initial turn in.

 

With a Super Late and it's left rear mechanically forced up and it's right front smashed down, might the dead distance be there to try to maintain some right front grip for an instant anytime the car gets off it's wing or mechanical raising of the left rear?  << hope I might be thinking of it use correctly ?

 

Same as any delay in unloading the left rear at turn in on any solid axle car is helpful, any reduction in the time the right front looses grip will help.

All of the above I think is all about giving the driver a little bit of grip longer going into the corner on anything and the right front on a Super Late with 'smash' will give the driver a little bit more turning left anytime Super Late comes off it's wing.

 

If I'm thinking correctly both may reduce the time lag between any normal loss of grip and when the chassis can recover.

 

All is about theory and theory is never 100% correct and I'm never 100% sure anything I'm conjuring together is correct.  :)

That IS what makes thinking about how solid axle dirt oval stuff works FUN.

 

Thank you very much.

I tried to write how what you offered help make my picture clearer.

I really hope the clearing is helping to give me a more accurate over all picture/theory bout stuff.  :)




#4 dirtstudent2

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 09:09 AM

Heck might as well write/ask about something else I'm clueless about and have absolutely no understanding.   :) 

... never know might learn something?

 

I've heard and don't know if it's true that Rocket has 3 different front ends.

I'm thinking the reason for different front ends would be in general to change the over all length of what ever levers are applying chassis weight to the right front.

I'm thinking maybe the theory for different front ends would make a racer able to match turning ability to tracks they normally run.(again don't know and clueless about it)

 

Now or currently with 'smash' being brought into the picture and if it's purpose is to try to or help maybe delay grip reduction at the right front.  

Maybe the 3 or maybe more different types of front ends has been replaced with one which is long levered and intended to work with 'smash'?

 

... told ya I was clueless, grasping at straws and throwing stuff out there hoping something sticks !  :)

 

but it's fun




#5 dirtstudent2

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Posted 15 November 2021 - 09:16 AM

Guess in general what I'm now thinking is sure lots of stuff go into where or how far you put the right front down.

But the dead travel in the right front shock is about trying to help delay the unloading of the right front.

 

I think right front grip is the all critical thing with a Super Lates ability to apply hp at the back.

Unless your going perfectly straight determined by how the rear axle rolls, If ya can't turn the thing ya can't apply hp. 

 

And yes not forgetting there's a left front too to be used as much as possible along with the right front.

 

all... maybe clueless wandering but again fun to write trying to learn something. 




#6 dirtstudent2

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 08:19 AM

I just quickly looked up Late Model "smash" and I did not use the word correctly.

If I understood correctly from my quick look up "smash" is a complex way of looking at total applies spring load.

... and i'm not sure I got that right either.

 

When I wrote I used the word "smash" to mean the dead non shock working distance used at the right front.

I learned at Charlotte not all use it at the right front.

 

If I understood correctly it was explained to me internally they put raceways inside the shock so there is a distance of total shock travel which is NOT dampened at all by the shock.

...hope I got it right?

 

If I have it correct then anytime the right front unloads there is a distance upward of chassis travel which is "free" to travel without any dampening.

It means for a instant/moment of travel up the right front will remain better engaged with the track until the shocks dampening engages to lift the right front tire because of reduced/controlled chassis upward movement.

 

... maybe?  :) 

 

The part of my thinking about longer front end levers is also to help delay right front unloading because longer levers put distance between chassis movement and it's operating of the right front.

 

Except for driver skill there are only two mechanical ways to delay a tires unloading and they are either use longer levers or put slop into the chain of parts.

A non working distance built into a shock puts slop into the chain of parts which engages the right front tire.

 

Yes longer levers operate faster and shorter levers operate slower.

The actual use is not in the speed front end levers operate because they are dampened by shocks.

Their use and ability to help in this case is because it will take a bit more time to get the longer levers operating.

 

Thanks for reading my bull and I wish someone would have pointed out my incorrect use of the word "smash".

... I know i'm incorrect about a lot of stuff.  butt this is for my entertainment and fun trying to learn and fix dumb stuff I think about.  :)

 

Ds2




#7 dirtstudent2

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Posted 16 November 2021 - 08:21 AM

I think then "smash" is about how you apply your tire for track conditions and "free shock travel" is to help keep a tire engaged at least maybe for an extra instant of time.







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