45 replies to this topic

[Austin]

Austin not trying to tell you you don't know what your talking about but you don't know what your talking about. A decent stock car motor is at least $4000 - $6000 a decent mod motor is $6000- $8000 Mullins stage 3 mod motor is $16500 look it up. When racing trucks my biggest bill to freshen and put some upgrades in the motor was $950 with reground cam new pistons and headwork We ran in the top 5 consistantly.

I'm not talking about a top of the line mullins or dargie. To go fast at waynesfield, you do not need 700+ hp. Even better yet, some guys at montpelier, skyline, KC, and hilltop are running really low budget 305s and 350s. If your spending $5,000 on a stock car motor, i advise searching online for a motor, or building your own to cut down on labor costs. You can build a 383 for $2,000-$3,000 and get around 500-600 hp with it. Often you can find really good deals on racingjunk, or in other racing classifieds. Theres no rule stating that a machine shop has to build your motor, or that their motors will automatically be better than a do-it-yourself built one. It also helps to know the little odds and ends, sometimes people spend money on parts that dont necessarily help them.

[sammie]

WOW! double checker hit nail right on the head! I ran stock cars when they were all steel body's junk yard motor's. 15 years later what a change. I don't feel there is anything wrong with the rules . I believe the only talk about rule change was to stop this from getting out of hand. It would be great to have a meeting to explain what and how the rules are being enforced. If you reed the rules the way they are now there is a lot of trucks in the gray area. Im not pointing fingers we have all been in the game long enough to know what we are doing and what rules we are trying to get around. I have done it for years. no one believes there breaking the rules just playing around in that gray area right. Just make rules explain them then enforce with no exceptions.

[sammie]

Hey by the way this is the off season i'm bored . Just trying to get people talking about something we love to do. This great i can't spell good but i can get on hear and ramble on isn't that outstanding everyone have a great day!

[racer50]

I"ll take one of those $3000 600hp 383"s your talking about let me know when I can pick it up.

[Austin]

I"ll take one of those $3000 600hp 383"s your talking about let me know when I can pick it up.

http://www.racingjun...mp;resultsPP=20

If you look, you will find. I guess many people think that if Dargie or Mullin's costs $15,000 then the rest will cost the same. Half the cost of the motors are labor anyways, look at the $46,000 sprint motors. You can often find great deals on racingjunk, racestuds classifieds, 4m.net, and various other sites. Not to mention, many local racers often have great deals on motors. I have heard of quite a few motors being sold for under $4,000. I think you would be surprised on the budget that some of these guys run off of. I love to see people with used parts, older chassis, and older engines going out there and beating the guys that think that $25,000 in a modified is all it takes to win. Soon these guys realize when they put it to the wall and trash it that it takes more of a driver and a foot than anything. Putting 850+ HP to a slick track and mashing the gas gets you no where.

Edited by Austin, 17 October 2011 - 07:18 PM.

[racer50]

I am a budget racer and do put my own engines together. Of the engines listed on the link you posted 2 of them might make 600 hp the one for $5999 and the one for $7000 the rest would struggle to make 450hp. Just saying that for $3000 your not going to get 600hp Also a used engine will cost another $2000 min. for a rebuild. One thing I will telll you is all of the top 10 at Lima in the mods have at least 600 hp and at least $8000 engines

[sammie]

At least i am not the only that knows for a fact that you need HP thats why it is racing. If racing wasn't about big motors and smart people getting very creative you would not need rules or inspectors. THATS FOR ALL CLASSES!

[Dirtracer48]

I'm not talking about a top of the line mullins or dargie. To go fast at waynesfield, you do not need 700+ hp. Even better yet, some guys at montpelier, skyline, KC, and hilltop are running really low budget 305s and 350s. If your spending $5,000 on a stock car motor, i advise searching online for a motor, or building your own to cut down on labor costs. You can build a 383 for $2,000-$3,000 and get around 500-600 hp with it. Often you can find really good deals on racingjunk, or in other racing classifieds. Theres no rule stating that a machine shop has to build your motor, or that their motors will automatically be better than a do-it-yourself built one. It also helps to know the little odds and ends, sometimes people spend money on parts that dont necessarily help them.

LOL you're not making 500-600hp for two to three grand (or likely at all on a 2 barrel 383). I know for a fact there are some stocks with WELL over 12-15k in their motors. And unless you have some contacts for stuff like specific cam specs, access to stuff like a flow bench, dyno, etc....you're out to lunch.

I think you can be rather competitive on that kind of motor bill though, but not at the HP numbers you're talking.

Seems simple, if the trucks are "all handling" and these are cheaply built motors...bring back a $500 claim rule, and claim away. Sorry guys....the class needs it.

Edited by Dirtracer48, 18 October 2011 - 09:57 AM.

[double checkered]

Just curious.......but why do only the truck guys need it when the past few post have been about the extreme cost of engines in other classes. If rules are written, and enforced then there is no need to claim. If the rules are open and a guy is willing to spend an obscene amount of money knowing his motor can be claimed then that makes sense. The claim is to limit guys spending, not enforce the rules. I'm sure soon enough aluminum blocks will be legal in mods because its such a cost savings to buy one off a late model guy. And dry dumps too since its all part of the package. Oh heck subframes are really becoming scarce so we better just go full tube frame. I know classes evolve but mods aren't what the were intended and neither are stocks. With all the cutting on the front subframe of a mod its more for appearance than anything. I know this is a truck post and I'm sorry to get off topic. Just stating my opinion that if you (racers) and we (officials) ALLOW a class to get out of hand, there is no one to blame but ourselves. Jeremy

[double checkered]

I though about the claim idea........ I'd go for it if it was more than $500. All truckers get a number together what the limit they feel they are willing to spend on a motor and that's your claim. You can't punish a driver because we all know even a very very low buck motor may not be $500. If a guy wants to go and spend $5000 on a truck motor, fine. Set the claim at $5000. So you can spend just as much as the original guy. If someone is able to build a strong motor for $3000 and he gets claimed..... Congrats. Your hard work and ingenuity is worth the profit. I'm just throwing numbers out there. Not stating that it has to be that high. Just a REASONABLE number decided by those that the rule affects. Jeremy

[sammie]

That all sounds great i have claimed mod motors and had mine claimed the only down fall to the claim rule is the money you have to make it where a working man can afford it anything else is wasted paper the guy than can afford thousand dallars or more can afford to build the big motor himself, in racing BSing with the other drives having a good time. Is part of the sport we all love we look foward to seeing the drivers and crew to tell stories of how fast you were and how little your motor is lol. The first motor you claim you can forget all that now your a motor claimer and thats not good believe me.

[sammie]

I have the answer for the trucks. It's simple leave the rules alone just enforce the ones we have now. Hear is the real answer some drivers claiming its about handling not motor then let's put that to the test invert the whole field fast guyes start on the tail. It would be great racing and the crowd would love it. As a truck owner that meanes a little more work fixing body panels. But i think it would be great. Plus make better driver out of some of the begginers and seasoned truck drivers.

[double checkered]

What do you base your inversion on? Points? Time trial? Heat race? If its one of the latter two, people will just sandbag unless its a benefit to win (money). So if you go with points, you have to give passing points too and a fair point fund so the guy working his butt off passing cars may not win a single race but can win a championship by racing hard. You put alot of people at risk with aggressive driving and less experienced racers causing incidents in the front of the pack taking out "good" trucks that startcat the back. I like inversions. It does make for better entertainment. But I don't feel you should just punish faster trucks just cause....I wanted to offer a bounty to any driver who was slated to start on pole and voluntarily went to tail and won. I would increase it every week until it was won then start over. I absolutely love watching a driver work traffic to go to the front. But I worried it would promote a driver to be over aggressive and crash other cars to get the bonus. Jeremy

[sammie]

I have seen this work in TN. where i started racing it is based on heat races the only thing you have to give points in heat races . That stops some of the sand bagging you never stop all of it but you will have great racing. yes your going to have a little more bumping and banging but come on this is racing if drivers cry a little about rubbing there in the wrong sport .I did not say crash every one It is a whole lot better for the fans and drivers if some one else won. I must be wrong every one likes to see the same trucks win year after year wow when the race starts what mystery who's going to be up front. If it was 4or 5 races or even a good season but year after year come on need to shake things up have some fun put some excitement back in the class.

[Fatmatt]

I always love it when someone brings up truck rules. It always gets the keyboards hummin. You sure do have to have a strong motor to run up front, but if anyone thinks we have 4,5,or 6000 dollars or even half of that in a motor to win $180, lol fine. pay us to tear it down again. Just another big disappointment for ya. Just as it was the last time mine was taken apart. I have learned you have to have everything to win, motor, handling and someone who knows how to make it work in the seat. I think I proved that one out in the mod this season,lol.

[Racer31]

There are a ton of ideas about the truck class and it will never end. That is mainly because we allow all makes and models. We have to find the balance in the rules to allow fuel injected turck to run door to door with the carburated trucks. I know everyone says...."just listen to the truck it's not stock". You are 100% right! The trucks are not stock and they wouldn't hold up too long if they were. That's what all of us original truck racers found out over the years and we had to put some money in them to make them hold up. It's a tight rope to walk when you are talking rules for this class. I'm more in favor of allowing some sort of claim again (I doubt it gets used thoguh) and some sort of rule that will invert based on number of wins. I've seen classes that invert the past weeks feature winner to the tail the following week. Not sure yet on what would be fair....so the jury is still out on that. We could have a rules meeting but I promise you it will be the same as it always is.............we won't resolve the issue in question. Instead of offering what's wrong let's offer some suggestion on what would even things out. I still think the class is pretty good the way it is with maybe some very small changes. Personally I don't think sliders, mono leafs, aftermarket tubular I-Beams and slab bodies belong on these trucks but that is something that we will address in our discussions. Here are some of my "brainstorms": 1. Top 5 in points will start behind heat transfer spots. This means that if there is a B-main then the top 5 will be in front of the B-Main. 2. Award a tail starter bonus that is progressive. If you choose to start the tail (only the first responder in the top "to be determined" points will be eligible) and win the A then you get the bonus. If no winner then the money rolls over into next week. This bonus money will advance a certain dollar amount each week. 3. hard charger points awarded for the most cars passed in the A each week I don't know I guess I'll keep brainstorming.......speak up and offer up some ideas. I more proned to believe that we should offer performance rewards and risks that help even and reward those rather than change rules and make people spend money.

[sammie]

I agree the rules are pretty good no way to be perfect. As far as sliders , mono leafs,aluminum side panels it makes it alot easer to fix and like a lot of them replace rusted parts to make them look better.Top 3 in points past the invert is good but the tail would make the points race closer because the 3 to the tail would be deferant week to week if there not just plain dominating the class. I dont think you need to give bonus points if your that fast you should look foward to prove how good you really are. You could always run a mod where they start 20 finish 9 or10.

[double checkered]

If you invert last weeks feature and a new guy shows up, does he start feature on front row or tail? Would it be better if you could run ANY motor in any chassis then add/remove weight for different makes like the minis? I know what the preferred motor and chassis would be but if you weigh it down may balance back out. Again just brainstorming. Just throwing out ideas to keep the topic open and maybe get others thinking. Jeremy

[Racer31]

Jeremy that is actually what I would have loved to seen in the beginning. Mixing chassis would make it more of a level playing field but it wouldn't help to curb the costs that much. I know the original idea behind the class was to take a bunch of stock trucks and keep them as much stock as possible and see which brand comes out on top. Since that time we have evolved to where we are now. As for the aluminum bodies, what I mean was the slab looking bodies. I have no problem with guys replacing a steel fender for an aluminum fender as long as you keep stock appearing body lines. The sliders.....well they are simply not stock in any way. It allows you a geometry advantage with your rear end set up. The tubular I beam....well those are not a stock replacement they are a performance replacement. As for the inversions I think that is a way to attempt to even the playing field week to week for a points race and give others a chance. How about this: Draw for the heat line ups but when you spin the inversion wheel that is how many of the top poins guys start in front of the b-main. Then you start your a main line up straight up based on how they finished in the heats. For instance we spin a 4. This means the top four in points at the time are sent to the back and the rest of the line up is taken from the finish order in heats. I'm just tossing different ideas out there to try out. Just like anything in racing you will never please everyone. We just hope to keep the majority happy and coming back. That is what it's all about!

[sammie]

Dan i really like that idea. That way the top trucks have more to worry about then racing each other. now everyone has to work for the win, and others got a chance. I see your point about sliders. Like i said before in the world of racing the rules in the truck class a simple. But need to be enforced the same for everyone from the start of the season. Have a one week suspension on the rules we have now. You said you don't like mono leaf for trucks how about bars with coil springs lol. something else to think about everyone including me is chopping the trucks up more and more to get to the 2400 make it 2800 or 3000 then there is no need to strip it down to a empty shell. Just thinking out loud. that will get me no were!