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#41 tjtrackrabbit

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:21 PM

E Mods and street stocks or what ever you call them are the classes that should be running Crate motors ! Not late models.

If you ain't live'n life on the edge, yer taken up to much room.


 

#42 TheLegend

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:51 PM

5000 $ claimer is too much imo. Should be about the same price as a 602. $3000 would be great especially when only running for $400 to win. Leave the big money motors for the supers! Also think the big tires need to go as well. Lot harder to hook up on little 8" tires

They will give you the same retarded liberal argument .... " late model tires are cheaper because you can buy a used late model tire cheaper than a new street stock tire " lol lol lol knowing damn well guys are going to buy new late model tires... Wider tires can handle more power so people spend more on engines ... And up go the costs lol stupid ass liberals ....

Edited by TheLegend, 19 July 2013 - 06:52 PM.



#43 Fastbydesign

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:04 PM

A good legal Bedford cast iron stock intake stock exhaust manifold 350 makes 325-340 horsepower with a stock 2GC 1 3/8 carb.


#44 TheLegend

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

A good legal Bedford cast iron stock intake stock exhaust manifold 350 makes 325-340 horsepower with a stock 2GC 1 3/8 carb.

A Pittsburgh cadet makes 900 hp minimum and revs 9500 rpm .... To the mat all the way around !!!


#45 Fastbydesign

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:19 PM

Sorry. Did not mean to interject facts..


#46 slicktrack

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

A guy I raced with at Dog Hollow in the street stocks let me see his dyno sheets ,,the thing made 670 hp.


#47 faster1

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

A good legal Bedford cast iron stock intake stock exhaust manifold 350 makes 325-340 horsepower with a stock 2GC 1 3/8 carb.

Now figure the cost of the good brzezinski manifolds and reworked "stock" carb, about another $2500?


#48 Fastbydesign

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:32 PM

No brezinski anything. Just good solid engine design.


#49 Raz900

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 10:57 PM

Dart SHP block - $1400 Ross pistons - $800 Used Casadium pins $40 ebay RHS iron heads 220 - $400 new pair bare off ebay Rev Valves $150 Crane springs and retainers $150 Howards crank $500 Scat 7/16 ibeams $300 bearings/rings $200 Comp Cam & lifters $250 Crane/Scorpion rockers $200 Rocker studs, bolts, gaskets etc $300 Summit damper $150 Kevko oil pan, pump & tins $250 Ebay Victor Jr $100 Balancing, machine work $500 If talking building from the bottom up, it's easy to have $5000+ in parts even looking for bargain Ebay or Craigslist deals. But let's be realistic, how often do you start from scratch without a single reusable part? The above is my last motor, a 380 that's probably in the 525-550hp range. It'll get rebuilt and reused for under $1000 a couple times, so figure fresh build and 2 rebuilds would be an average of under $2500 per 'engine' for 3-5 years of running. More for me on a reduced schedule. I do have access to angle mill my own heads and some other machining, also do all the blueprinting and assembly work. Could save a few hundred with a stock block, but at 500hp, a factory 400 block is an eggshell. Even a 350 block at 500 in 383 form is asking to run the crank over. As others have said, what places charge for assembling the above is insane. $3000 in parts is an $8000 engine. $8000 in parts is a $20,000 engine. I've redone an '$8,000 stockcar race engine' from a well known builder before it was even fired because it wasn't something I'd run. It's precharging for the time spent listening to someone whine about not making enough power thus not doing well. Saving $10,000 on the engine and buying new tires or a couple shocks would be a better investment. The shop I worked at shy'd away from race engines as the return on investment for a cruise car that would thump and light the tires up was way better than building a race engine. We did some, that were VERY successful, but would pass if not the right person.


#50 714d

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:22 AM

I still would like to point out that there is a difference between "pure stock" and "street stock". There are no "pure stocks" with 600hp. These are typically 2 barrel, stock manifold, factory head cars making maybe 350hp. And with 8" tires that's all you need. The "street stocks" have become quite an animal in the last decade. Many do have 5-600hp and a few can put it down to the ground. They are within the rules (or lack thereof) and are just insane for the $. Cheaper to buy a chassis, build the same engine with aluminum heads, and go steel block late model.


#51 TheLegend

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:29 AM

Dart SHP block - $1400
Ross pistons - $800
Used Casadium pins $40 ebay
RHS iron heads 220 - $400 new pair bare off ebay
Rev Valves $150
Crane springs and retainers $150
Howards crank $500
Scat 7/16 ibeams $300
bearings/rings $200
Comp Cam & lifters $250
Crane/Scorpion rockers $200
Rocker studs, bolts, gaskets etc $300
Summit damper $150
Kevko oil pan, pump & tins $250
Ebay Victor Jr $100
Balancing, machine work $500

If talking building from the bottom up, it's easy to have $5000+ in parts even looking for bargain Ebay or Craigslist deals. But let's be realistic, how often do you start from scratch without a single reusable part? The above is my last motor, a 380 that's probably in the 525-550hp range. It'll get rebuilt and reused for under $1000 a couple times, so figure fresh build and 2 rebuilds would be an average of under $2500 per 'engine' for 3-5 years of running. More for me on a reduced schedule. I do have access to angle mill my own heads and some other machining, also do all the blueprinting and assembly work. Could save a few hundred with a stock block, but at 500hp, a factory 400 block is an eggshell. Even a 350 block at 500 in 383 form is asking to run the crank over.

As others have said, what places charge for assembling the above is insane. $3000 in parts is an $8000 engine. $8000 in parts is a $20,000 engine. I've redone an '$8,000 stockcar race engine' from a well known builder before it was even fired because it wasn't something I'd run. It's precharging for the time spent listening to someone whine about not making enough power thus not doing well. Saving $10,000 on the engine and buying new tires or a couple shocks would be a better investment. The shop I worked at shy'd away from race engines as the return on investment for a cruise car that would thump and light the tires up was way better than building a race engine. We did some, that were VERY successful, but would pass if not the right person.

The labor rates at big time shops aren't anywhere near what people are claiming. The reason engine rebuilds are expensive at " real " engine builders is because of all
The shit they replace. Anyone who goes to a back woods no name shop and pays the same thing as they would at the umpteen time woo/ Lucas engine builder of the year shop is a moron. That's like paying Davey the welfare warrior Lee Jonny Huck money to build you a deck .... FYI the welfare warrior isn't qualified to back fill the post holes and rake the yard when were done let alone actually run any type of saw ...

Edited by TheLegend, 20 July 2013 - 05:31 AM.



#52 signman ed

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:53 AM

Potomac Speedway has the perfect tire rule. Used late model rubber, they buy the tires from the lm competitors for approx 40 bucks, put their stamp on the tire and sell them for 45 bucks. The tires have a minimum/maximum tread depth. My brother talked to a few people when he was down there, and they all liked the rule. But because the rule works well somewhere else, that means we would never institute it around here.


#53 racerxcrewchief

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

a thousand dollar claimer on these pure-stock engines would put an end to all this . if you want to run a big dollar engine you need to move up a class .

There is two at the Hummingbird I'd buy today!

There's always more speed!And you don't have to cheat to find it!

#54 snooky

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

There is two at the Hummingbird I'd buy today!

No doubt about that. Just listen to them idle on the grid. I think one of which u speak had trouble as it hasn't been there for a few weeks.


#55 17093

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:59 AM

a thousand dollar claimer on these pure-stock engines would put an end to all this . if you want to run a big dollar engine you need to move up a class .


1,000 won't even pay for the block, machine work and heads. Unless your running garbage and in that case you don't have to worry about finishing high enough for a claimer.


#56 TheLegend

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

1,000 won't even pay for the block, machine work and heads. Unless your running garbage and in that case you don't have to worry about finishing high enough for a claimer.

Yes I've heard that they only use 4.5 bore spacing lightened brodix blocks with titanium main caps or billet dart blocks ....


#57 TheLegend

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:24 AM

There's not a street stock motor in pa that couldn't set fast time at the world 100 on hammer down conditions ...


#58 TheLegend

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:27 AM

Some of those guys have hammers that could set fast time at the Knoxville nationals .... With a 3310 carb instead of stacked injection !!!


#59 BaconBits

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:42 AM

a thousand dollar claimer on these pure-stock engines would put an end to all this . if you want to run a big dollar engine you need to move up a class .



Claimer rules do not work. They've never worked. Gentleman's agreements destroy the intent of the rule.


The easiest way to cut motor costs is to take bite out of the cars themselves. Put them on hockey puck hard narrow tires. It doesn't make sense to bult big horsepower if you can't hook it up. It's worked for IMCA for years.

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