51 replies to this topic

[Fwig]

Race tracks are in the entertainment business. They are putting a show on with "stars" for that track. So basically it would be like making a movie with Jim Carrey and after you start it, going to Jim and telling him that I'm not going to pay you as much as we agreed on because I'm not sure we will make enough money.

Back gate should not be relied upon to finance a track?????? I sure don't understand the logic in that! Every track has three forms of income; Pit gate, Grandstand gate, and concessions. ALL THREE PAYS THE BILLS!

In business you have to adjust to customer needs. The racers are not the customers, they are what you need to entertain the customers. The tracks pay to get quality entertainment, and offer a clean facility and exciting atmosphere.

Cutting the pay, in my opinion, is not the right answer. Adjusting your schedule, rules, and format could be a much better solution that works for both race teams and fans.

[03Rocket]

Chris all of bam bams magic green energy company's were built using the " if you build it they will come " mentality and where are they now ??? Bankrupt ... You need to get racer and fan support before you can raise payouts . D

One thing is certain you will not get racer support with crap payouts

[The Legend]

What data did you want the guy to base it off of ??

[The Legend]

He now has data from last year and the first race this year to base his decisions off of an the decision was to reduce pay outs

[Fwig]

Ok Legend, I hire you to build a deck on one of my homes for $10,000. You complete the job, and I decide that the deck did not add $10,000 increase to the home. I feel the deck increased the value only $5000, and only pay you $5000. Now this is a business decision. Please explain to me the difference in what AMP is doing and what I'm doing?

Edited by Fwig, 23 May 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[dirtstudent2]

Pretty much ditto what Fwig said.

 

The only product a race track offers fans is a form of unique entertainment, which cannot be had elsewhere.  The racers provide the only reason for a track to be in business with stands for fans.  Without fans they will need to have an entry fee to race and pay back a percentage of the entry fee.  If the racing is good fans will grow, if it's not fans will dwindle.  Let's say you had a track which was surviving only catering to racers and payed back even 100% of the entry fee.  And the concept is not far fecthed, there are dirt oval kart tracks all over the country doing it today.  What would you do if you wanted to have a front gate, in addition to the back gate?  There is only one thing you could do and it is to add to the payout pot to attract racers, hoping it will create the possibility of profit from a front gate.  Kart tracks do exactly that all the time offering a bigger payout along with a higher entry fee, to attract racers and their supporters.  The show the racers put on is the only reason to have a front gate.  Hurt the show and you hurt your front gate, it's that simple.  

 

IMHO, investing in a track in an area comparatively sparse in population and far away from a highly populated area, with other competition close by is not a good business decision.

 

Below is a map of population density.  How many tracks are prospering outside of red areas on the map or located close between red areas?   Probably very few outside or away from red areas are in the black.  And those outside the red areas which are, are most likely the major form of entertainment in the area outside high school sports.

 

map:

 

http://www.kompulsa....sity_by_county/

Edited by dirtstudent2, 23 May 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[The Legend]

Fwig where it
Is different is that you hired me to build a specific project and signed a contract to pay me an agreed upon amount . Your comparison would be similar if the racers only found out about the pay cut AFTER the race. For apples to apples it would be I'm supposed to build you a deck next week and you call me today and ask me to do it for less. At that point I still have the option to refuse to build it .

[D1RT]

Pretty much ditto what Fwig said.

 

The only product a race track offers fans is a form of unique entertainment, which cannot be had elsewhere.  The racers provide the only reason for a track to be in business with stands for fans.  Without fans they will need to have an entry fee to race and pay back a percentage of the entry fee.  If the racing is good fans will grow, if it's not fans will dwindle.  Let's say you had a track which was surviving only catering to racers and payed back even 100% of the entry fee.  And the concept is not far fecthed, there are dirt oval kart tracks all over the country doing it today.  What would you do if you wanted to have a front gate, in addition to the back gate?  There is only one thing you could do and it is to add to the payout pot to attract racers, hoping it will create the possibility of profit from a front gate.  Kart tracks do exactly that all the time offering a bigger payout along with a higher entry fee, to attract racers and their supporters.  The show the racers put on is the only reason to have a front gate.  Hurt the show and you hurt your front gate, it's that simple.  

 

IMHO, investing in a track in an area comparatively sparse in population and far away from a highly populated area, with other competition close by is not a good business decision.

 

Below is a map of population density.  How many tracks are prospering outside of red areas on the map or located close between red areas?   Probably very few outside or away from red areas are in the black.  And those outside the red areas which are, are most likely the major form of entertainment in the area outside high school sports.

 

map:

 

http://www.kompulsa....sity_by_county/

It is also not a good business decision to buy or build a track and decide to compete for the same cars and fans on the same night with two other tracks in close proximity.

Hidden Valley/Gamblers/ARP or what ever name it chooses to be has tried this formula over and over again and it has never worked.

See a pattern forming here???

Hate them all you want but the other two Saturday night tracks continue to race and have yet to hear them ever having to cut their payouts....  

[Fwig]

All of the teams that built their cars to AMP's rules and planned to race there also planned on their payouts. Now they all have done the work and not getting paid what they were expecting, tell me again the difference? Other than Late Model's most of the support classes will now have to spend more money to be legal at other tracks.

[rsadiedog]

Guys, the bottom line here is that we are a dying breed, and and sport is bleeding from a gunhot wound which no band-aid is gonna fix!  You are right, racing is a unique form of entertainment for the fans, who now have many more entertainment options to choose from on a Friday and Saturday night than they did years ago.  An the younger generation isn't into the sport, unless maybe we make a class for tuner cars with fart can mufflers!  And in that particular geographic area there is also too much competition between tracks, let alone all the outside competition that racing has. 

 

So with that being said, what should Mr. Taylor do? Close the doors, and be ridiculed for shutting the place down?  Up the gate fees and make the fans pay more?  Charge and entry fee for the drivers?   Keep taking a bath and loose money every Saturday night?  Or lower payouts?  I think he made the choice I probably would have made as well, except I do agree with whoever said that it was too early to make such a decision, maybe give it a couple more try's with better weather and see how things pan out.  But he did say that he would put them back up if things turn around, so I guess we'll see what happens.

 

Yes the cost of racing had doubled while the payouts have not hardly moved or have even gone down.  If your in this sport to make money, you are dumber than I thought!  One thing that is often overlooked if the ratio of what the payout is vs. your cost.  If you want to go to a big track in an area that has a higher economic base, like a Selinsgrove or a Port Royal for example, yes, you will get $200 just to start the feature, and $1500 to $2000 grand to win.  But if you run at such a track, your gonna need a lot better equipment to keep up than you will need at a short track.  And your maintainence will cost more as well.  I guess what I am trying to say is you have to race in a class that suits your budget, and you need to have classes at your track that suits your racers, ie. limited late models, limited sprints, etc.  AND NOT CRATES! (that a whole other rant).  The limited class at AMP and Clinton Co. is perfect for this area, and honestly the best bang for your buck.  Again look at the payout to cost ratio, a $6000 dollar car to win $400, 15 wins will pay off the car vs. a $50,000 car for $2000 to win, 25 wins to pay off the car.  Now don't start bashin me, that is just an example, I know that there are other expenses involved and that is not a totally accurate correlation, and trust me those expenses or much higher the better equipment you have.  For example, your big high dollar hammer under the hood now takes fuel that cost $10-$11 dollars a gallon vs. the limited motor which needs $7.50-$850 dollar fuel. 

 

So what's my point, well i guess it's run what you should be running.  We all want to race, but don't make yourself macaroni and cheese broke to run with the late models, and have to cut corners and run sub-par equipmnet, which causes cautions and hogs up a show, and relying on your payout from that night to get you home, if you have a semi-late or even a 4-cylinder budget.  If we all raced like you didn't get paid at all, just did it for the FUN of it, the challenge, the excitement, that what it is all about, right?.  Yeah the pay is nice, but in no way is a accurate wage for the work and costs involved, what like .05 cents and hour! And if promotors would work together, run classes that they should be running and enforced rules the sport may be doing better than it is.

 

So back to the original post, Jeff Taylor is trying to survive in this era, and has spent a lot of money to bring the track back to a decent facility, and while I don't agree with every decision you have made, I'm not the one paying the bills. So, THANK YOU for your efforts so far, hopefully it all pans out and better weather brings better success to your track.  I do plan on running there later in the year, right now Saturday's are off the table for me!  And for all of those that can do better than Mr. Taylor, put your money where your mouth is, cause I'll bet he will sell you the track in a heartbeat!  And that goes for any track, all our promoters need applauded for trying!

[race ace]

if Jeff sells you the track Joey c will be pissed off since he told someone that he is still paying the property taxes on the place .lol ...just what i was told is all i know . now back to the original subject ... i was talking to a racer and he said to me "you might laugh at what i am going to tell you but these tracks around here need to adopt the I.M.C.A rules package" and all the tracks run them that way if you want to run lets say A.M.P. one week and marion center the next week and hummingbird the next week you have the same rules package and if you are an I.M.C.A member ( from what i  understand ) your points from each track go into your total for the year points system plus i was told they cover you in insurance for 100 dollars for a year membership and that covers you from the time you leave the house until you get home .might be a thing to consider trying to unify rules instead of what these tracks are doing to each other now .I look for the car counts to be back up this week with the weather  getting warmer this week end .

[Hatorade]

The supply of race tracks in that region far exceeds the demand for racing not only fan wise but racer wise, too. That region is not economically rich to provide a race track 20 racers in each division and stands full of people. If the tracks want to stay open you have to adapt or die. In this case his adaptation is to lower the purse. Maybe another option would be switching to a different night. While I do think their purses are definitely on the light side are racers really looking to make money? Quit the bitching and enjoy the weekend of racing while remembering our troops!

[The Legend]

What they want is Jeff to keep bleeding money until he has to smoke hammers for junior bacon cheeseburgers . These amp cars are not the caliber cars racing in wheatland Missouri this weekend , if they want better pay go elsewhere

[DavyLee2]

" You build something for others and not for yourself " Walt Disney

Obama built greeny weeny companies to funnel 65 billion to his donors who closed the fake busnesses a week after they opened . Big difference and not even relevant.

Build it and they will come ! if it built to serve others

[cats442]

Before closing AMP, I would give Friday nights a try.  It seemed to work for CPS several years ago.  Less competition for fans and cars.

[The Legend]

Raceway 7 paid 2k to win and 400 for 10th of a weekly super late show .... And ended up dropping supers

[plymouth-man]

I got to talk to Jeff the last night they ran and he looked at the stands and said this is a big loss tonight, I was going to cancel but people wanted to race so we toughed it out. It was a small crowd last Sat and he can't keep loosing money so I hope the crowds get bigger with warmer weather.

[116 octain]

You can all try to figure out the business logics of it. But the truth is it's a
BULLLSHIT LOW BLOW MOVE!!!!!!!

Edited by 116 octain, 23 May 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[grt0404]

i dont like the drop in payouts just like everyone else with nice weather for the weekend and also a holiday weekend i am sure that many people will be camping or going out of town for a few days so here is the question if the crowd and car count is low again what will happen next cut the purse more charge more to get in the track stands and pits or something else the weather has not been on amp`s side this year so far cool weather and low car counts have hurt the track i hope for good weather and more fans and cars to bring the payouts back to where they were grt0404 greg eckl

[The Legend]

They may convince sunhoney to provide some service to " help the winner out " lol