69 replies to this topic

[FanJim24]

Ask Lernerville how they made out when they were taken to court after they DQ'd a driver that won the feature for being light on the scales that weren't inspected and certified according to State law for someone getting paid by the results of a scale.

Don't know the Ohio laws but i'm guessing they're close to the same.

nvm

Edited by FanJim24, 30 August 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[ramsey31]

Jo73,   I think its really situational.   Yes, Waltrip did loose his sponsor, but not for a technical infraction...for deliberately trying to throw a race by having Clint Bowyer spin.

 

If you look up the greatest cheats of NASCAR, its loaded with names like Richard Petty, Jr Johnson, Clint Bowyer, Darrel Waltrip, Aj Foyt, Denny Hamlin, Jimmie Johnson, and even Ryan Newman for illegal tires.   

 

Part of racing is in fact pushing the rules, and for that reason even if they did soak em, so what.     I have a strong wonder if this attorney based in NY didn't pull these drivers together under a class, and see those $$.   Just weird that drivers from AZ,IL,TN and PA would use the same attorney in NY

[jo73]

Ramsey. Loopholes in rules and what each persons belief in how those rules are determined is what made many a champion. MWR first lost the support from TRD for what they had givin him and he took it beyond that I believe. That unfortunately started his tumble from being in thick with Toyota. Pretty sure that was when his partner pulled out also.

I personally have little use for any attorney. They have caused insurance rates of many forms to inflate by 100, 200, 300 %. Many firms have people searching for cases and they approach individuals and throw absurd numbers at them for little to no cost. I am sure if the settlement is under a predetermined amount that firm will get most of it.

[RocketChassis#1]

This suit will change the face of racing as we know it. I suspect these five may find venues that they are allowed to race at in the future are few and far between. Like Vince said, especially with smaller Mom and Pop operations, will they have to weigh to have someone like Scott Bloomquist compete at their track, and risk being sued if he is found illegal for any reason, or D.Q.ed for rough driving, jumping the start, or any other judgement call. Or just don't allow him to race. I can imagine other sanctions and tracks are all ready looking into this.

[dirtstudent2]

Might all bans on tire prep be lifted if they win?

[jo73]

If they win. The question needs to be ... will insurance rates at racetracks escalate out of reach for track owners ???

[FanJim24]

The problem is...what if they didn't soak their tires?  WRG wanted to hard line them, I would guess to save face for their back door financier, Hoosier.  WRG and Hoosier should have cut a deal.  Now everyone else will have to pay for WRG's back door deals and arrogance.  

 

Just my view.  It may or may not have any merit.  

Edited by FanJim24, 31 August 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Brian44m]

D1RT, We will all die prematurely, I promise that. Nothing good comes from prepping except speed. And until a sniffer comes out that is full proof and does not cost thousands we will continue to get cancer and other diseases down the road from this crap. And sadly, its all about prep these days. The reason for the ingredients are not listed on these bottles is more than just because they want it kept secret to other competitors its also you would pass out if you new what you were playing with. still not sure how they get away with the government not mandating ingredients be on the bottles with as big a business as it is. I have pushed, and pushed to do away with prep in karting but there is no way till we come up with a full proof way to prove that a tire has not been tampered with and its way to costly to do what WRG is doing. I pray for the day I can pull my series drivers off the scales, cut the top three's tires and send them somewhere to be tested but I don't have that kind of money. I could turn what is now a 20,000 dollar tire bill for a big money race to a 1200 dollar tire bill in minutes.

Edited by Brian44m, 31 August 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[D1RT]

The problem is...what if they didn't soak their tires?  WRG wanted to hard line them, I would guess to save face for their back door financier, Hoosier.  WRG and Hoosier should have cut a deal.  Now everyone else will have to pay for WRG's back door deals and arrogance.  

 

Just my view.  It may or may not have any merit.  

Forget about Bloomquist and Owens. Their history speaks for its self.....

There are three other drivers and teams that have good reputations and spotless records in their racing careers.

Why would Satterlee, Shepherd, and Thornton juice their tires knowing full well if they done well and finished good they would be tested?

Why would these three drivers and teams be so willing to put them, their owners, sponsors, and families neck on the judicial and public opinion chopping block if they were not being 100% truthful that they done nothing wrong and had credible evidence to back up their claims?

I have a feeling which ever way this deal goes it is going to open up Pandora's Box and reveal a lot of skeletons hidden for many years in the dirt late model world and dirt racing in general....

[Brian44m]

One of these drivers told me that the tires that were put on his car that night were straight from the Hoosier tire trailer. They brought straight from the hoosier trailer to the car trailer, mounted and put them on the car after sanding the surface off. Now, is he lying to me? He stated to me that he tried to find out what was on the tires and they would not tell him. He even said, "maybe there was something on them that was not put there deliberately. Maybe it rolled through something. But at least tell me what it is." Last time I talked to him they had not answered his emails or call to inform him what was illegal. Just my two cents guys but this is shady to me.

[BaconBits]

Forget about Bloomquist and Owens. Their history speaks for its self.....

There are three other drivers and teams that have good reputations and spotless records in their racing careers.

Why would Satterlee, Shepherd, and Thornton juice their tires knowing full well if they done well and finished good they would be tested?

Why would these three drivers and teams be so willing to put them, their owners, sponsors, and families neck on the judicial and public opinion chopping block if they were not being 100% truthful that they done nothing wrong and had credible evidence to back up their claims?

I have a feeling which ever way this deal goes it is going to open up Pandora's Box and reveal a lot of skeletons hidden for many years in the dirt late model world and dirt racing in general....

 

 

Thornton himself had never been popped for juicing before, but the team he drove for has.

[FanJim24]

Forget about Bloomquist and Owens. Their history speaks for its self.....

There are three other drivers and teams that have good reputations and spotless records in their racing careers.

Why would Satterlee, Shepherd, and Thornton juice their tires knowing full well if they done well and finished good they would be tested?

Why would these three drivers and teams be so willing to put them, their owners, sponsors, and families neck on the judicial and public opinion chopping block if they were not being 100% truthful that they done nothing wrong and had credible evidence to back up their claims?

I have a feeling which ever way this deal goes it is going to open up Pandora's Box and reveal a lot of skeletons hidden for many years in the dirt late model world and dirt racing in general....

...or maybe dirt mega corp incorporated anyway.  

Maybe Lucas and the All Stars can rise to the top in the midst of all of this.  ASCOC has made great strides in 2 years with the change in ownership.  

[ramsey31]

Food for thought...if this really is about clearing a "possible" tarnished image, would the teams be happy if WRG gave them the purse money associated with their finish, and found "no fault" with the drivers, or no admission of guilt by either side.  

 

Or what if WRG and Eldora file a counter-suit because like the drivers reputation is on the line, so too is Eldora and WRG if the tests were correct and scale was within margin.

 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.  Could really go a number of ways.

[RocketChassis#1]

...or maybe dirt mega corp incorporated anyway.  

Maybe Lucas and the All Stars can rise to the top in the midst of all of this.  ASCOC has made great strides in 2 years with the change in ownership.  

But the All Stars are not a Late Model sanction, and their owner is Tony Stewart, who owns Eldora, which is part of the suit.

[dirtstudent2]

Except if spilled large quantities not all fuels and preps are considered pollutants, carcinogens and harmful.   The problem is if you allow only so called good fuels and preps, it makes it much harder to keep out bad fuels and preps.  It makes the only possible route of policing what is used to be to ban all.

 

Below I copied parts of MSD's for a tire prep we use to use almost 20 years ago.  Though it was and still is a tire prep and helped on the track, I never considered it a prep.  The only consideration back then was how well it cleaned tires and that if we cleaned tires with it, on track performance seemed to be better.   I suspect like many 20 years ago or even many today, I never considered how chemicals altered tires internally or externally, because it was then and is today only about what works and what doesn't work.  Most except for dummies like me who enjoy getting into the why of stuff, could care less about why it works.

 

After almost 20 years I recently gave some of the non toxic surface prep we use to use to a racer to try and the results were exactly as I said they would be.   By the way the prep we used was the exact chemical with the only exception being meeting clean standards during production, weather it was sold in Food Grade or not.  

 

Except for not being able to make money off racers who use it, why would anyone care if a "Food Grade" prep is used?     

 

__________________________

Carcinogenicity: Not IARC, NTP or OSHA listed

Mutagenicity: Not reported to produce mutagenic effects in humans.

Reproductive: Has not been reported to produce reproductive effects in humans.

Sensitization: Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems may be more susceptible to this product

___________________________

Exposure Controls / Personal Protection

 

Biological limit values No biological exposure limits noted for the ingredient(s).

Engineering controls Good general ventilation (typically 10 air changes per hour) should be used. Ventilation rates

should be matched to conditions. If applicable, use process enclosures, local exhaust ventilation,

or other engineering controls to maintain airborne levels below recommended exposure limit

_____________________________

Transport Information

 

TDG

Not regulated as dangerous goods.

IATA

Not regulated as dangerous goods.

IMDG

Not regulated as dangerous goods.

________________________________

 

 

I think a likely outcome of the case is if the racers only used surface preps which I think is most likely, because of the common use of surface preps now and legal use in the past, there is no way to prove their tires did not get contaminated from the track.  If WRG and the track did not also take samples from the track at the same time, I don't see how they could possibly show tire prep did not come from the track.  If that is the case I think WRG and the track should loose in court.

 

I think it's possible after being accused racers may have bought new tires from Hoosier, had them tested by labs of their choosing the same as WRG did and new tires failed.

 

I think it's possible we will not know the outcome and it will be WRG and the track who offer the undisclosed settlement or neither will say who's settlement offer was accepted.  If it goes or is likely to go in the racers favor, all we will know is their racing again and it was settled.

 

Many years back now I was told by the Hoosier seller at Lernerville, the rules were you could do anything you wanted to the tires and the only thing required was you use a specific tire.  Back then at the start of the late model race and into the first few laps, for awhile tire prep used on the track would hurt my eyes watching in the stands.  I'll bet there are others reading on here who remember it the same.  Some might respond on here saying the same but I think most would not because of the name calling and bull shit they would have to endure on here afterwords.

 

If it becomes about internal prep then all bets are off.  I have a question thinking about Eldora for those of you who race super's.   With the length of the race, the high speed demands of the track on the sidewall, along with IMO the primary sidewall consideration being a combination of track grip and hardness, would you even need to soften sidewalls or increase internally tire flex at Eldora?

 

Yes I ain't got nothing better to do.

[BUTTBEAK]

Ok...I'll bite, what was the food grade "cleaner"?

[dirtstudent2]

Ok...I'll bite, what was the food grade "cleaner"?

 

One which can be eaten and could be used in food preparation.  As in a seasoning or flavoring for food.

[bezerker]

This will end what little teching we now have at the grass roots level. What little we have now, is
going to be non-exsistant due to threats from teams who dont agree with the tech procedures or the
results. It just doesnt matter when and where you got your tires you are responsible for them. MOVE ON!

[jo73]

DS2. food grade CLEANER that you can eat and used in food prep ? You got me on that one. I don't think that I would be eating any product used for cleaning

[dirtstudent2]

DS2. food grade CLEANER that you can eat and used in food prep ? You got me on that one. I don't think that I would be eating any product used for cleaning

 

It's real and it is not what this thread is really about.