The mercer comment was nothing more than it may be lost forever. That place didn't require a pig motor, the place required a good set up and a driver. Rush trying for total dominance makes no sense. So, if they would push late models and only late models they mite be bursting at the seams with drivers and cars following them. Some defend every move she makes. The last year the sportsman were open motors at lernerville, few, dam few, left the stands. Look were it is today, it's like the flood gates open. Why is that ? Go ahead defend that move. Why do they want to dominate all divisions of racing ? And don't say it's the love of the sport. There in this to make money. Lots of it.
Approximately 50 new drivers set to make their debut in 2018 RUSH competition
Started by RUSH Racing Series, Apr 08 2018 08:44 AM
96 replies to this topic
#21
Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:29 AM
#22
Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:52 AM
Every sanctioning body/racing series is in it to make money!! From NASCAR to RUSH and on down the line!! So is every track owner/promoter to some degree!! It is the American way!!!
GOOD RACING!!!
Walt
#24
Posted 14 April 2018 - 01:46 PM
Here's a novel idea!
If you don't like the crate cars stay at home or go somewhere they don't race.
Pretty simple concept! Right??
But then, since we don't like train "races," we're not real fans. I've said before, I'll watch lawn tractors and go karts if the racing is good. A $10,000, (if you don't want to look like you're standing still), "cost controlling" motor in a prefab that you had better have gotten from Chris Schneider or Tyler Dietz if you want it to stay in the one groove--driving the same line as everyone else or losing 3 spots for attempting to actually pass in a race isn't racing. How many of the passes in the "pro stocks" at Lernerville haven't happened within 5 laps of the start or within 1 lap of a restart?
So, one in every 10 crate races is worth watching. Let me know ahead of time which one that will be and I'll be happy to pay to see it.
Sorry, Walt, I respect you very much, and know you are friends with Vicki and Mike, but Rush is chasing fans off by the truckload, and as much as I hoped the Thomsons would listen to fans, they are proving to be even more committed to telling their customers what they will get than Gary Risch was. Ask Steve Case of AOL how that works out.
Edited by FanJim24, 14 April 2018 - 03:28 PM.
- whiteboy55 likes this
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#25
Posted 14 April 2018 - 02:01 PM
But then, since we don't like train "races," we're not real fans. I've said before, I'll watch lawn tractors and go karts if the racing is good. A $10,000, (if you don't want to look like you're standing still), "cheap" motor in a prefab that you had better have gotten from Chris Schneider or Tyler Dietz if you want it stay in the one groove--all driving the same line or losing 3 spots for attempting to actually pass in a race isn't racing.
So, one in every 10 crate races is worth watching. Let me know ahead of time which one that will be and I'll be happy to pay to see it.
Sorry, Walt, I respect you very much, and know you are friends with Vicki and Mike, but Rush is chasing fans off by the truckload, and as much as I hoped the Thomsons would listen to fans, they are proving to be even more committed to telling their customers what they will get than Gary Risch was. Ask Steve Case of AOL how that works out.
What some of you aren't realizing is that there are a lot of die-hard fans giving crate racing a chance, hoping it gets better, and that the empty promises come to bear fruit. We won't wait forever before we realize we've been lied to. How long did it take for the racing fans to give up on nascrap? It'll happen with Rush too, but something else will be blamed--the economy, expenses, zoning....
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#26
Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:15 PM
Where the hell do you get in my post questioning anyone about being a "real race fan"??
There's tracks and divisions I don't care for.
Guess what??
I go to tracks I like and watch divisions I like.
Pretty simple! Right???
There's tracks and divisions I don't care for.
Guess what??
I go to tracks I like and watch divisions I like.
Pretty simple! Right???
#27
Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:45 PM
Where the hell do you get in my post questioning anyone about being a "real race fan"??
There's tracks and divisions I don't care for.
Guess what??
I go to tracks I like and watch divisions I like.
Pretty simple! Right???
There are those who have said in this thread that if we stop going to races because they are boring crate races that we aren't real fans for discontinuing our support of "one groove racing." What I was pointing out that you propose one solution, that I normally agree with, but others have already said that it makes us not real fans.
The problem with your very valid solution is that once Rush gets their way there won't be any racing, (including crates), to patronize.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#28
Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:28 PM
For the record, i have no problem with crates in a program. I have a problem with crates muscling out thriving divisions. PPMS going to crates and being completely support divisions is a shame, but it's not a problem with crates, it's a symptom of what's wrong with the whole exclusivity deal mentality, and another nail in the coffin of a track that's been in decline for decades. I'm not saying I can a run a racetrack, but sometimes I can see fatal flaws that I would love to see corrected. Late Model counts have been spiraling exponentially since the tracks started making tire deals, but no one will even consider tire deals to be the problem. I don't want to see racing die in this area, but the current mind-sets of the track owners seems to be Hell-bent on killing racing here, and Rush is capitalizing on propagating the death spiral. Maybe, (hopefully), I'm completely wrong.
Rush killed the raciest division at Lernerville, for no reason at all. They could have put their brand on the crate motor cars in the division and let the open guys run, just like it was, and kept points on the crate drivers. Mat Williamson has been running for series points and getting track points too the whole time he's been running W.PA.
Edited by FanJim24, 14 April 2018 - 05:30 PM.
- dirtstudent2 likes this
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#29
Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:16 PM
For the record, i have no problem with crates in a program. I have a problem with crates muscling out thriving divisions. PPMS going to crates and being completely support divisions is a shame, but it's not a problem with crates, it's a symptom of what's wrong with the whole exclusivity deal mentality, and another nail in the coffin of a track that's been in decline for decades. I'm not saying I can a run a racetrack, but sometimes I can see fatal flaws that I would love to see corrected. Late Model counts have been spiraling exponentially since the tracks started making tire deals, but no one will even consider tire deals to be the problem. I don't want to see racing die in this area, but the current mind-sets of the track owners seems to be Hell-bent on killing racing here, and Rush is capitalizing on propagating the death spiral. Maybe, (hopefully), I'm completely wrong.
Rush killed the raciest division at Lernerville, for no reason at all. They could have put their brand on the crate motor cars in the division and let the open guys run, just like it was, and kept points on the crate drivers. Mat Williamson has been running for series points and getting track points too the whole time he's been running W.PA.
That has been my argument with the Pro Mods and rush stocks. Completely unnecessary when you have divisions within a class that are doing just fine. I really have no problem with the late and northeast rushmods. I think the sprints were the most outside of the box idea they've doneand will likely take the place of 305's region wide but i absolutely hate the idea of rush stocks and promods which are motivated solely by greed and the idea of monopolization. Especially when rush likes to pretend that economods didn't exist and all these testimonials from guys like Ruhlman, Lunger, and Michaels saying pro mods were sooooo necessary for guys who can't afford an open.... coming from someone who doesn't race anymore and charges $25,000 for a rocket emod roller, someone with more than enough money to afford top nothc crate late and pro mods equipment, and someone who has run the renegades series for the last 3 years. It's so necessary because there is nothing else in the region for those people.... or at least we'll pretend their isn't. How many people are bailing on crate stocks this year for penn ohio? The run our motors and races or go home mentality has made several drivers from the stocks go elsewhere. I hope the economod division continues to grow and thrive now with the touring series because their motors and shock rules keep it cost effective and the motors are no more expensive than the crates for the pro mods. If you get one used they're half the price of a crate but let's ignore that.
#30
Posted 14 April 2018 - 07:55 PM
That has been my argument with the Pro Mods and rush stocks. Completely unnecessary when you have divisions within a class that are doing just fine. I really have no problem with the late and northeast rushmods. I think the sprints were the most outside of the box idea they've doneand will likely take the place of 305's region wide but i absolutely hate the idea of rush stocks and promods which are motivated solely by greed and the idea of monopolization. Especially when rush likes to pretend that economods didn't exist and all these testimonials from guys like Ruhlman, Lunger, and Michaels saying pro mods were sooooo necessary for guys who can't afford an open.... coming from someone who doesn't race anymore and charges $25,000 for a rocket emod roller, someone with more than enough money to afford top nothc crate late and pro mods equipment, and someone who has run the renegades series for the last 3 years. It's so necessary because there is nothing else in the region for those people.... or at least we'll pretend their isn't. How many people are bailing on crate stocks this year for penn ohio? The run our motors and races or go home mentality has made several drivers from the stocks go elsewhere. I hope the economod division continues to grow and thrive now with the touring series because their motors and shock rules keep it cost effective and the motors are no more expensive than the crates for the pro mods. If you get one used they're half the price of a crate but let's ignore that.
The problem is that Rush isn't about helping racing, or serving the driver/fan. It's about empire building. The problem with empire building in a spectator sport is that we customers aren't serfs we're customers, and we aren't mandated to pay into the empire.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#31
Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:10 PM
They ignore current trends and produce their own spin on stories such as pro mods. Act like they're saving emods now and there was no help in sight... And in the article above where andy proper says that crate lates were the next logical choice from a mini stock... when he's driving for a family friend who's had crate lates for years and he doesn't have a dime in the car. But let's have him discuss how cost effective they are. So the rayburn and top of the line crate motor with who knows how expensive of shocks is cheaper than an open stock car. Like you said, It's not about helping racers it's about growing their brand through drivers, tracks, partners, and promoters and that's fine but don't feed me a line of garbage and expect me to believe it without any thought. Like Walt says most are here to make money and some know that but some drink it up. TbH, i'm looking forward to watching Jim Dandy, Kugel, & Holden do battle this year and i'll watch that when i'm already at the track but i'm not going to make a trip to Mckean county to watch them.
Edited by sicario, 15 April 2018 - 08:33 AM.
#32
Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:38 PM
Still nobody answers the question. If there are no fans in the stands, can race tracks survive ?
I wouldn't expect anyone to answer that question. They can't afford to answer that question. They can't afford to even think about it.
Edited by FanJim24, 14 April 2018 - 09:41 PM.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#33
Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:52 AM
Anyone ever go to a NHRA race ? The NITRO cars come to the staging lanes and what happens ? the fans run to there seats. Why ? because they want to see the open motor monsters click off times that only make you wonder, do they really drive those things or just point them at a spot at the finish line and hold on. The PRO alcohol cars come up, which they do click off some impressive times, the seats empty.
Aero racing and rules killed indy cars, people ran to nascar, well guess what ? It is a proven fact, that's not the racing the paying fan wants to see. It's called NASCRAP for a reason. Some of the top drivers have walked away from the sport for the same reason.
WoO, Lucas, both SLM and Sprint cars. The stands at most races are usually pretty full. The Big E, people quit going to there local speedway and go to the place to see open cars and speed. That's what we all want to see. The Lucas 360 deal, ASCS, the stands are empty, pic your seat, show up 5 mins before the green flag and you have your choice of were to park your butt.
The fans at Lernerville get up and leave as soon as the big 3 run there features. If you deny that, your in a bubble. If they would have built there crate late program instead of wanting to have a monopoly over every division out there you mite see, in fact I will say you would see, b mains with12 to 15 cars in them. They put on a good show.
Walt, you are correct, promotors have to make money somewhere to stay in the black. The sanctioning body has to make money also. But, they are in this for profits that border greed and domination. Is that good for the sport ?
So, for the true race fan, save your money, and within the tri-state area you could go see the open motor cars we all enjoy watching. Every moment a WoO sprint car or a travelling SLM is on track we all watch on the edge of are seats. Let's hope Sharon gets good weather for the Lucas race. I don't think you'll find a empty seat in the place.
#34
Posted 15 April 2018 - 12:47 PM
Anyone ever go to a NHRA race ? The NITRO cars come to the staging lanes and what happens ? the fans run to there seats. Why ? because they want to see the open motor monsters click off times that only make you wonder, do they really drive those things or just point them at a spot at the finish line and hold on. The PRO alcohol cars come up, which they do click off some impressive times, the seats empty.
Aero racing and rules killed indy cars, people ran to nascar, well guess what ? It is a proven fact, that's not the racing the paying fan wants to see. It's called NASCRAP for a reason. Some of the top drivers have walked away from the sport for the same reason.
WoO, Lucas, both SLM and Sprint cars. The stands at most races are usually pretty full. The Big E, people quit going to there local speedway and go to the place to see open cars and speed. That's what we all want to see. The Lucas 360 deal, ASCS, the stands are empty, pic your seat, show up 5 mins before the green flag and you have your choice of were to park your butt.
The fans at Lernerville get up and leave as soon as the big 3 run there features. If you deny that, your in a bubble. If they would have built there crate late program instead of wanting to have a monopoly over every division out there you mite see, in fact I will say you would see, b mains with12 to 15 cars in them. They put on a good show.
Walt, you are correct, promotors have to make money somewhere to stay in the black. The sanctioning body has to make money also. But, they are in this for profits that border greed and domination. Is that good for the sport ?
So, for the true race fan, save your money, and within the tri-state area you could go see the open motor cars we all enjoy watching. Every moment a WoO sprint car or a travelling SLM is on track we all watch on the edge of are seats. Let's hope Sharon gets good weather for the Lucas race. I don't think you'll find a empty seat in the place.
Here you go again, back to the same old fans love speed bs. Fans go to Eldora because the best in the country are there, I doubt many go there just for the speed as you claim. You try to play both sides of the fence, in one sentence you say you have no problems with crate racing then in the next you are complaining about it. All you clowns act like Vicki held a gun to all the drivers heads to make them run her series. Here's an idea, get off the computer and go talk to some of her drivers and ask them why they run with her. A lot will say it is because they cannot afford the out of control costs of supers, they can make money without spending a small fortune or maybe they just enjoy it. I think a lot of you people are jealous that someone has been so successful for so long and has a good business model. I leave you with this, when she promoted Mercer, the place thrived, full fields of cars, packed stands every week. When she left? Well you know the rest.
#35
Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:43 PM
Anyone ever go to a NHRA race ? The NITRO cars come to the staging lanes and what happens ? the fans run to there seats. Why ? because they want to see the open motor monsters click off times that only make you wonder, do they really drive those things or just point them at a spot at the finish line and hold on. The PRO alcohol cars come up, which they do click off some impressive times, the seats empty.
Aero racing and rules killed indy cars, people ran to nascar, well guess what ? It is a proven fact, that's not the racing the paying fan wants to see. It's called NASCRAP for a reason. Some of the top drivers have walked away from the sport for the same reason.
WoO, Lucas, both SLM and Sprint cars. The stands at most races are usually pretty full. The Big E, people quit going to there local speedway and go to the place to see open cars and speed. That's what we all want to see. The Lucas 360 deal, ASCS, the stands are empty, pic your seat, show up 5 mins before the green flag and you have your choice of were to park your butt.
The fans at Lernerville get up and leave as soon as the big 3 run there features. If you deny that, your in a bubble. If they would have built there crate late program instead of wanting to have a monopoly over every division out there you mite see, in fact I will say you would see, b mains with12 to 15 cars in them. They put on a good show.
Walt, you are correct, promotors have to make money somewhere to stay in the black. The sanctioning body has to make money also. But, they are in this for profits that border greed and domination. Is that good for the sport ?
So, for the true race fan, save your money, and within the tri-state area you could go see the open motor cars we all enjoy watching. Every moment a WoO sprint car or a travelling SLM is on track we all watch on the edge of are seats. Let's hope Sharon gets good weather for the Lucas race. I don't think you'll find a empty seat in the place.
Except that when the stocks were running 4 wide with a real chance to pass people stuck around. Now that it's get in line, don't lift, hang on and hope the guy in front of you jumps the cushion, yeah, everyone is leaving again. That's my point.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#36
Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:58 PM
But these are the points you're not allowed to make. The points that if you bring up the you're not a fan of "racing" etc. and all the other ridicilous claims from the opposing side. People like crates and others don't. But for either side to acknowledge any of these points is impossible because if you don't like crates you're a moron or a hater. How can someone disagree withExcept that when the stocks were running 4 wide with a real chance to pass people stuck around. Now that it's get in line, don't lift, hang on and hope the guy in front of you jumps the cushion, yeah, everyone is leaving again. That's my point.
Rush and have actually formed a logical opinion to have arrived at this point??? This mentality and one sided crap is whats wrong with everything today. Refusing to see any opinion that differs from their own. I hate the monopoly and you're with us or against us mentality and the stretching of everything in any write up, interview, or Spade calling touring races. It's all the same. And again, to Jo's point with no fans... same with my point of asphault, how has RUSH and crates helped asphault? Put the final nail in thr coffin, that's how.
Edited by sicario, 15 April 2018 - 03:17 PM.
#37
Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:02 PM
Here you go again, back to the same old fans love speed bs. Fans go to Eldora because the best in the country are there, I doubt many go there just for the speed as you claim. You try to play both sides of the fence, in one sentence you say you have no problems with crate racing then in the next you are complaining about it. All you clowns act like Vicki held a gun to all the drivers heads to make them run her series. Here's an idea, get off the computer and go talk to some of her drivers and ask them why they run with her. A lot will say it is because they cannot afford the out of control costs of supers, they can make money without spending a small fortune or maybe they just enjoy it. I think a lot of you people are jealous that someone has been so successful for so long and has a good business model. I leave you with this, when she promoted Mercer, the place thrived, full fields of cars, packed stands every week. When she left? Well you know the rest.
Maybe you should ask the drivers who only run the Stampede how correct you are.
Right now Rush has a lot of money to rent drivers and track time with, I assume from all of the manufacturer deals, but sooner of later that will run out and the fans will have long ago been chased off. So the big question that the Rush fans won't answer is what happens when no one's in the seats? How will Rush be helping racing once it's chased the fans off? And yes Rush has replaced classes that were far more successful than the Rush replacement. So, yes, the end game is to make a lot of money by destroying racing.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
#38
Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:08 PM
Except that when the stocks were running 4 wide with a real chance to pass people stuck around. Now that it's get in line, don't lift, hang on and hope the guy in front of you jumps the cushion, yeah, everyone is leaving again. That's my point.
funny you complain bout this, yet the late models are literally the same way. its wfo on the cushion too so I guess you would hate that also.
#39
Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:11 PM
Maybe you should ask the drivers who only run the Stampede how correct you are.
Right now Rush has a lot of money to rent drivers and track time with, I assume from all of the manufacturer deals, but sooner of later that will run out and the fans will have long ago been chased off. So the big question that the Rush fans won't answer is what happens when no one's in the seats? How will Rush be helping racing once it's chased the fans off? And yes Rush has replaced classes that were far more successful than the Rush replacement. So, yes, the end game is to make a lot of money by destroying racing.
Once again your post is obviously biased. You say RUSH is destroying racing, yet it has kept people involved who would otherwise be out of the sport. I guess idiots like you and JO who go for the speed would rather see all those people hang it up. Since you guys have all the answers here maybe you two should get together and figure out how to fix the super late models so we can go back to the days of 30 cars a night. Good luck on that.
#40
Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:21 PM
funny you complain bout this, yet the late models are literally the same way. its wfo on the cushion too so I guess you would hate that also.
Yes, they are, and they're boring. That's what makes Rush's killing the racing in the former sportsman/stock division such a problem. At least before mandated crates they usually raced. Now there's not even that.
My dad drove late models in the early 70's at North Hills, Butler, Mercer, Blanket Hill, and occasionally Tri City. We won the last late model track championship at Blanket Hill.
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