68 replies to this topic

[Skull]

i'm out here in Arizona with the Canyon Raceway Park last three days they ran the IMCA mods average 45 per night They run a certain tired everybody sees be happy with anything keep their cars under controlalso talk to a guy says it's very easy to cheat in that division with traction control anybody does that in western Pennsylvania LOL

Was anyone able to decipher this, or is it some American English dialect that I'm unfamiliar with?

[longtimeracefan101]

Was anyone able to decipher this, or is it some American English dialect that I'm unfamiliar with?

sorry mr. scholar it was a talking response OPPPPSSSS😠😡👍

[Skull]

Some asked if Emig and Leone are helping or hurting local racing by pushing the Crate envelope.

My personal opinion is that the original Crate/Fastrak/RUSH concept will continue to fracture around here to the point where the rules for them will be as varied as they are for Stocks right now. To me that ship has sailed, and Emig is smart enough to fold Rush or sell it off before it loses money. She jumped on the Crate bandwagon to cash in, nothing more, nothing less. She only cares about racing as long as she is profiting from it.

These guys are right. Get the Stocks off of the LM tires, then they can run any motor they want, without weight breaks that favor Crate motors that no one techs. Teams that are capable of, and want to build their own engines should be free to do so without having to bolt on some ridiculous amount of weight in favor of rules for engines that could and probably are cheated to hell and back.

[Crusty1]

I don't understand why when someone comes up with money for a division people bitch.
The way I read this is the Rush tracks that run stocks with 602's and 604's can be involved in a points fund plan and simple, no new series no conflict with the Penn Ohio Series.
Skull as far as tech I would have to think that is covered, they do a very good job with the Rush LM series.
No BS if you remember last year Rush tossed one of the sponsors cars for a cheater engine.
Like it or not the GM 602 and 604 are going to be a big part of weekend racing.

I also agree that the LM tires need to go this will eliminate the need for the big $ motors.

[Skull]

I don't understand why when someone comes up with money for a division people bitch.
The way I read this is the Rush tracks that run stocks with 602's and 604's can be involved in a points fund plan and simple, no new series no conflict with the Penn Ohio Series.
Skull as far as tech I would have to think that is covered, they do a very good job with the Rush LM series.
No BS if you remember last year Rush tossed one of the sponsors cars for a cheater engine.
Like it or not the GM 602 and 604 are going to be a big part of weekend racing.
I also agree that the LM tires need to go this will eliminate the need for the big $ motors.

I'm not bitching, I'm being, I think, justifiably cynical. You mean to tell me there will be RUSH officials at every member track to inspect the integrity of these motors? I'll believe it when I see it.

[Tyler Beichner]

I'm not bitching, I'm being, I think, justifiably cynical. You mean to tell me there will be RUSH officials at every member track to inspect the integrity of these motors? I'll believe it when I see it.

Does UMP send one of their officials to every weekly track they have?

[Crusty1]

I'm not bitching, I'm being, I think, justifiably cynical. You mean to tell me there will be RUSH officials at every member track to inspect the integrity of these motors? I'll believe it when I see it.

Maybe Vicki or Mike can make a comment on this.
I know on the LM class they have engine builder tags.

[dirtdevil05]

Vicki was on the right track the year she had Crate Stock cars but she should have allowed open motors. The tires were hard as a rock and lasted multiple nights but it made you work on your setup and good drivers had no issue making it work. Motors didn't matter when there was minimal traction and if there is anything that cost more money it's too much traction as once you get enough tire people start blowing money on HP and driving matters less!

[Skull]

Does UMP send one of their officials to every weekly track they have?

Probably not and that's precisely my point.

Tagging engines, special bolts, it's all bullshit. You make more rules, teams will figure out ways to get around them.

Giving these 604's weight breaks and not teching them is bullshit. Either tech all of the motors and if not, then do away with the weight break and make everyone run hard, 8" tires.

[The Legend]

235/75/15's on all 4 corners with a minimum 35 psi in all 4 corners ... Find out who can wheel ...

[Jmfosnaught]

Just to clear things up: the 604 rules, for stock cars, at Lerneville, are basically the same as the 358 open engine rules. There are no weight breaks given for the 604. The 602's have many different advantages including a weight break and the use of a racing style transmission (Bert, Brinn, etc.). The 602 was utilized with some success by Chris Schneider but it didn't catch on.

Lernerville currently has no actually tech procedure for the crate option but the engine builders that are involved with Fastrak and Rush are the guys providing these engines. And they are using the same process of tagging as they do for the crate series. I can't imagine they'd put their reputation on the line for a couple of stock cars to be successful. Lernerville's tech officials did pump the 604's and they came up just under 350 C.I.

IMO, it's crazy to buy a 604, attempt to "cheat it up" and expect great results. The cost of doing this would outway the gains to be made. You can still build a very good open 358 and know exactly what you're getting. But you will incur a higher cost to do so.

So, you either spend more or compromise HP for cost. Either way, the stock cars at Lernerville have always had parity. Usually one of the best features of the night.

*If I were still running stocks, I wouldn't do anything but a 604. The durability and cost works for a budget and a good setup has proven that they can win races*

-Also, this added cash from Rush is very simple: If you run a crate engine weekly, you can cash in. If you don't run a crate and/or are opposed to this idea, it doesn't effect you weekly or the Penn Ohio series-

Edited by Jmfosnaught, 28 January 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[Crusty1]

Just to clear things up: the 604 rules, for stock cars, at Lerneville, are basically the same as the 358 open engine rules. There are no weight breaks given for the 604. The 602's have many different advantages including a weight break and the use of a racing style transmission (Bert, Brinn, etc.). The 602 was utilized with some success by Chris Schneider but it didn't catch on.

Lernerville currently has no actually tech procedure for the crate option but the engine builders that are involved with Fastrak and Rush are the guys providing these engines. And they are using the same process of tagging as they do for the crate series. I can't imagine they'd put their reputation on the line for a couple of stock cars to be successful. Lernerville's tech officials did pump the 604's and they came up just under 350 C.I.

IMO, it's crazy to buy a 604, attempt to "cheat it up" and expect great results. The cost of doing this would outway the gains to be made. You can still build a very good open 358 and know exactly what you're getting. But you will incur a higher cost to do so.

So, you either spend more or compromise HP for cost. Either way, the stock cars at Lernerville have always had parity. Usually one of the best features of the night.

*If I were still running stocks, I wouldn't do anything but a 604. The durability and cost works for a budget and a good setup has proven that they can win races*

-Also, this added cash from Rush is very simple: If you run a crate engine weekly, you can cash in. If you don't run a crate and/or are opposed to this idea, it doesn't effect you weekly or the Penn Ohio series-

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!! from a racer that knows what it cost to go race!!

[Skull]

Pumping the motors isn't going tell anyone anything other than the displacement.

I also agree that the approved 604 engine providers are not going to risk losing business over a couple of cheater engines. But Jim, you and I both know that there are engine people out there that will build a power plant whatever way you want and use the right seals and bolts. I've been around the sport long enough to realize that teams will spend and do anything to gain an edge. I believe that more restrictions with the same or less tech allows some teams to do whatever they feel necessary to gain an edge.h

Edited by Skull, 28 January 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[Jmfosnaught]

Pumping the motors isn't going tell anyone anything other than the displacement.

I also agree that the approved 604 engine providers are not going to risk losing business over a couple of cheater engines. But Jim, you and I both know that there are engine people out there that will build a power plant whatever way you want and use the right seals and bolts. I've been around the sport long enough to realize that teams will spend and do anything to gain an edge. I believe that more restrictions with the same or less tech allows some teams to do whatever they feel necessary to gain an edge.h

This is Jason, not Jim. To address your point: people will cheat anyway they can...even with the current rules for the open engines. I'm sure people are building the open stuff with unapproved parts (even more so than attempting to cheat with a 604). How are we teching the open engines? Pumping them is not the proper way either. But we're not arguing that point currently. Cheating is going to happen no matter what program is in place. I'm just pointing out that if you want to run a 604 in the stocks, it's a cheaper alternative and not worth the time or effort to "cheat it up". There isn't enough to gain from going that route.

[racer67x]

I've been at Lernerville a couple times and have seen the 33 car run..is it really a 604 and do those things run that good out of the box? I can see it being good when the track slicks off but that car can pull about anyone down the straights in a heat race.

[brad hibbard]

604's have a torque curve that is very useful in a racing application.

 

we have 604 latemodel customers that race against steel block cars with a 100+ more HP and compete with them easily and at timse beat them down the straightaway

 

the actual power curve is what makes the engine so succesful in open competition not the peak HP numbers

 

with that theory being said----I can share some stories of guys who bought engines used and were not happy with the way they performed so they bring them in for rebuild and we find a cheated camshaft-----

when we call them with the news ---we always hear--"there is no way its cheated up because it runs like crap"

 

fact is they are pretty good the way they come from GM

 

just my 2 cents

 

Brad

[Skull]

I've been at Lernerville a couple times and have seen the 33 car run..is it really a 604 and do those things run that good out of the box?

I can see it being good when the track slicks off but that car can pull about anyone down the straights in a heat race.

Unless that motor has been torn down and proven legal, I'll never believe otherwise.

[TEAM29]

I would like to see what the 55 has going on inside also....

[The Legend]

Jared Landers ran 14.992 at eldora with a hammer

Multiple guys have gone 17.20 at ppms with a hammer

What are the crate track records at those tracks ???

[BaconBits]

Jared Landers ran 14.992 at eldora with a hammer

Multiple guys have gone 17.20 at ppms with a hammer

What are the crate track records at those tracks ???

This is off topic, but this makes me laugh a bit. One is bad fast at Eldora and the other is bad fast at PPMS. They're supposedly the same size, yet the track record is over 2 seconds different.

It's just funny to me how tracks just straight up exaggerate size sometimes. Eldora is maybe 4/10. PPMS is a true half. This is not to say that PPMS is better than Eldora, because we all know it isn't. Not even close.