Danny those shocks don't blow up and they don't cost 14k to rebuild ... More like 100 each to rebuild once every season or 2 if your only racing once a week. And the 1425's do not fall off nearly as much as the 1600's do. Running open motors for weekly shows isn't viable. I'm not saying to outlaw them just make track conditions so they aren't necessary. People think they'll just go buy a used open motor for 20k and their good
Lol lol until the take if for a 1000 lap rebuild and hear it's 13k lol. If track conditions require that type of power you will find less and less people willing to spend what it required to continue. The idea of the spec motor was one of the best the Miley's ever had .... The crates wernt even a bad idea until they allowed the 604's and shocks that turn the cars into expensive go carts that allow rookie drivers to look like they have done it for 10 years ...
Holtgraver & Schneider at Pittsburgh
Started by flash49, Apr 18 2015 10:05 PM
169 replies to this topic
#41
Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:54 PM
#42
Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:13 PM
walt, I think bill bauer is the one to talk to at the knob.have not really heard anything since ron and judy left!
#43
Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:21 PM
All of the previous points about the track are ture, and are definitely reasons for its decline. Being someone who lives within 5 minutes of the track, a big problem I see is the complete lack of interest in the track from people in the local community. I graduated from high school 2 years ago, and while in school I could count on one hand the amount of times I saw someone from school up at the track. The impression I always had was that people either don't know the track exists, or they don't care (and there's a good chance they just don't care, because you can hear the cars from miles away). The track has a lack of fans as is, and the fact that few of those fans are young is bad news for the future. The few fans there won't be there forever, and there's no one that's going to replace them. The fact is, you have Robinson which is the same distance from people as the racetrack, where they can see movies, go to about forty different restaurants, and do countless other things. So you have to give people reasons to come to the track when you're up against that. The first problem is promotion, because I rarely if ever see any ad campaigns for the track, and then it's the product people get when they actually come to the track. For instance, they offered a free admission night to Robert Morris students on Saturday. In theory, that's not a bad idea. But the only place I saw this promotion was on their twitter page, and if you're not looking directly at the PPMS twitter page, how are you going to know about it? And let's say a few students did come, are they really going to want to come back and pay $15 admission for half filled classes with no headliner class? I love the track itself, I've been coming to races for as long as I can remember. But the decline is truly sad to watch. Go on youtube and watch the 1996 Pittsburgher, and you'll see what the track could be today. There were sponsorships covering every wall, a packed grandstand, and the pits was full of cars. Now the track is a shell of that. I used to go to the track every weekend. Now I'm thinking I won't show up until the All Star show in June, because with basically two legitimate classes that are half-filled, what is there worth watching?
#44
Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:16 PM
Habs33 check out The Ed Laboon Memorial Penn- Ohio Pro Stock Showdown May 30. We went last year and saw one Hell or a show, around 60 cars showed up well worth trip and money. Walt, are you still with pctc board that handles who gets into the Hall of Fame. I was reading some of the names that are in the Hall. Very impressive. I brought up Herb Bucks name at least 3 times and was wondering why Herb was over looked. I know he raced a long time in the Coup and Sprints. Hope you can help me out on this. Thanks
#45
Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:40 PM
I still have some input with the PCTC Hall of Fame, but Don Gamble handles most of it. As for Herb Buck, he was on the ballot for several years, but never enough votes to get in. A great solid runner and a heck of a nice guy, but just was never a big winner, and I think that is the reason he has never made it.
GOOD RACING!!!
Walt
#46
Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:55 PM
Everyone makes good points as I am reading along. I think Jon is right, spec motors were a good idea and they allowed the smaller teams to compete. Not everyone has Johnny Johnson or Ed Ferree money and dumb 40 grand into the motor alone. That is a valid point about RMU night too, it was never advertised anywhere else. I think the Mileys may rely too heavy on the internet and social media to promote. You still need some old fashion promoting IE passing out flyers at businesses maybe giving away free passes to the track. As shady mentioned, you first gotta get the people into the track then once they are there figure they will spend the 15 dollar admission you gave away in food.
#47
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:02 PM
Thanks Walt. I was friends with Herb for a long time. He gave me some good advice when i raced, and always had a smile, he was one of the good guys in racing. I can only hope the hall will honor him by putting him in. His wins may not have big numbers but when it came to racing he did alot for the sport.Sometimes you just have to look beyond wins and see what he did on and off the track.
#48
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:03 PM
Cars are the only thing that will keep asses in the stands, bottom line ! not websites that are updated weekly, not advertising ( they have nothing to advertise), not monster truck shows ( which are the only thing that they do promote), and certainly not crate late models as your main attraction. i don't care if there were 30 crate lates there , it simply does not justify $30 to get in. i would have felt ripped off at $20 to get in the pits. Saturday was truly the saddest night i have witnessed in the 30 years i have been attending PPMS. The highlight of the night was watching Dale Charlier show that he can still wheel a race-car.
the only thing that i see saving the track is running special events and scrapping their weekly show . alternating specials between sprints and late models . every time they have a sprint show, they get a decent crowd.
things can only get better as the year goes on, it can't get any worse than Saturday.
Stacie White
#49
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:07 PM
I understand you saying the crates are not a headline division. Let me ask you this, for the past few years their races have been better and more exciting then the late models? As gearhead said there aren't enough late models to go around anymore. Would you feel better paying 30 dollars to watch 10 late models, and probably only 4 or 5 are legit cars, the rest are just field fillers? I am not being a smart a$$ just curious on how people look at this? To me when I go to a track, I never care about what classes are there, as long as the field is full and the racing is good then it is money well spent for me and my family.
#50
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:21 PM
yes, i would feel better watching 10 late models for $ 30. no, i do not think the crate lates have been more exciting than super lates over the last few years, or ever.
when i go to the track and the price to get in is $30 for the pits, i expect to see either Late Models or Sprint cars.
Stacie White
#51
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:25 PM
I respect your view. I guess for myself I enjoy the crates because it is usually competitive close racing where in the late models usually only a handful of cars can complete for the win. I do agree with you that going to specials only seems like it could be coming.
#52
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:32 PM
I respect your view. I guess for myself I enjoy the crates because it is usually competitive close racing where in the late models usually only a handful of cars can complete for the win. I do agree with you that going to specials only seems like it could be coming.
i enjoy the crates also, and i hope i didn't come off as bashing crate lates as that is not my intention . i just cannot believe that they thought (the miley's) that they can get away with charging $ 30
Stacie White
#53
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:50 PM
Cars are the only thing that will keep asses in the stands, bottom line ! not websites that are updated weekly, not advertising ( they have nothing to advertise), not monster truck shows ( which are the only thing that they do promote), and certainly not crate late models as your main attraction. i don't care if there were 30 crate lates there , it simply does not justify $30 to get in. i would have felt ripped off at $20 to get in the pits. Saturday was truly the saddest night i have witnessed in the 30 years i have been attending PPMS. The highlight of the night was watching Dale Charlier show that he can still wheel a race-car.
the only thing that i see saving the track is running special events and scrapping their weekly show . alternating specials between sprints and late models . every time they have a sprint show, they get a decent crowd.
things can only get better as the year goes on, it can't get any worse than Saturday.
Wait till this Saturday when they dont have practice and the show runs with the same 4 divisions.
#54
Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:55 PM
If they come to their senses, they need to lower the admission on both ends. 12 for stands and 25 for pits sounds pretty good to me.
#55
Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:23 PM
old man d..........Herb Buck was one of the real good guys in the sport!! I was glad to call him a friend and sure haven't forgotten him!!
Walt
#56
Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:35 PM
Taking away the ability to bring in a couple beers in the cooler was a big disappointment ! If I was to only go in the stands .. that would have ended it for me ! You can still go to some nascar tracks with a cooler of beer ! A guy with a Sprayer could make that place look new in a week!
If they didn't get any money from a fracking lease .. they are the only ones on the eastern part of the USA! probably got $2000 per acre for just the lease! But its painfully obvious that one person with a roller and maybe a board or two is the agenda. The track is awesome ! there were a couple latemodels turning practice laps and you couldn't see the track from the huge cloud of dust .. but then the water .. and the track was awesome for the features .. slick is best for the cars but No Dust is best for the people watching ..
#57
Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:43 PM
Walt, the next time i see you there is a story to tell you about Herb, some other drivers and myself when we all went for a beer after Lernerville. If i remember it was the night he got upside down on turn 1. I think that was the only time i saw him flip.
#58
Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:26 PM
There were a few new crate cars there , I have never seen before . Who were they ? Where was lander? The 18 car
#59
Posted 22 April 2015 - 05:23 AM
There were a few new crate cars there , I have never seen before . Who were they ? Where was lander? The 18 car
The 22 car was the 82 car from last year. Don't know who the 10 car was or that 97 car.
#60
Posted 22 April 2015 - 07:52 AM
Lets see, how many times have I been through the "we are doing this to save the racers money" Well I had a spec motor (home built) and won, okay u need and "economy" engine, even though I had to basically scrap the spec. Built an economy engine (home built and won). Both costing less to build and made more power than a crate engine, what was wrong with those engines other than they required a tech inspector to do his job. So with all that money spent they want you to buy this junk crate engine that for what it costs I could build a legal engine and make more HP for the same if not less. This sport has evolved from people that could build things ,engine one of the most expensive items of the car and( if tech is done right could compete with the bought engine), to basically forcing those people out of the sport for having to buy a piece of junk that you can't fix yourself. Most automotive repair shops or gas stations use to have a race car, why? because that's what the people who worked there did, fixed or built them. Not had a big pile of cash to buy. I have been hearing talk of crate engine in the Stock/ Sportsman class, what do you think that is going to do to the car counts? Also make the track smooth and slick, then you have to drive not hold the gas pedal down and hang on. I would rather watch cars going 80 mph and race side by side than watch "Hot laps" at 110mph.
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