83 replies to this topic

[The Legend]

Your analysis assumes everyone is able to run the cushion as efficiently and everyone is of equal driving skill and that's just not true . Runing the bottom isn't always about motor like you seem to think. Some guys are excellent at running the bottom some guys are excellent at running the top some guys are great at both and some guys suck at both . I don't agree with them making crates mandatory but no way in hell does it result in zero passing as you predict

[dirtstudent2]

A comment on running the cushion.  It was told to me Lernerville stocks did not ride the cushion.  They go up to it but because of their weight and hp, riding the cushion eats speed.  Thinking back to last year watching the stock crates it does now seem to appear the crates had and advantage when running high.  Their advantage may have nothing at all to do with engine and all to do with getting a weight break.  If everything is equal down low because of the weight break, up top things are not equal and the crates have an advantage.  If I'm correct the success of the crates has nothing at all to do with engine and all to do with a weight break.

 

I suspect now someone's going to say the crates and the regular stocks at Lernerville ran at the same weight.  And I was too lazy to check weight rules before I posted. 

[Tommy]

different track, different class.  If, and I know it remains to be seen, everyone has to run the cushion because the motors don't have the bottom end to drive off the bottom it will be one groove "racing," and that's not racing.  I've lived in the south and hated the racing there, because it was all front bumper passing.  Garbage racing.  

Lernerville hardly has a cushion anymore, and by the end of night the track will slow down and there will be room to pass.

[jo73]

By the end of the night at lerneerville, turn 2 is miserable, there's nothing left to get a hold of. Turn 4 is not much better. Most guys have to turn in down off the top of the track in 4 or smack the wall. Guys going in are backing the corners up and trying to drive straight off the bottom of 2 and 4 exit. If someone with a motor has the patients to not burn the tires off it, my monies on him to win. In my useless opinion. NO CRATE MOTOR IS GOING TO GIVE YOU THAT PULL OFF THE BOTTOM. Those motors have to be revving constantly.

[The Legend]

A motor that's hooked up and not spinning looks twice as powerful

[dirtstudent2]

Lernerville hardly has a cushion anymore, and by the end of night the track will slow down and there will be room to pass.

 

When a track slows down it adds to the advantage lighter has over heavier.  There's only one reason for a track to slow down and it's because grip is reduced.  Reduce grip and lighter always gains more from it over gains by heavier.

 

Is 200#'s enough weight break for 602's to compete with 604's?

 

If they were really interested in making it more cost effective for racers using crate engines, they'd give the 602's enough of a weight break for the them to beat 604's.  Then it would be why would anyone spend the extra for a 604 when the weight/602 combination is the fastest thing on the track.

 

How light could you get down to and maintain safety requirements with a Sportsman at Lernerville.  Another thing to note is the new rules online written without reference to anything but crate engine's is titled "Dirt" sportsman rules.  There not Lernerville's rules, there "Dirt" rules adopted by Lernerville.  If crate is the future, there's no reason other tracks cannot use the same rules and if they wanted to pickup the performance of sportsman cars, drop the weight down to a minimum needed for safety requirements.

 

It still doesn't change the fact crate engines still get rid of racers who can or are willing to put their own engines together for less then the cost of crate.  It still doesn't change the fact the leaches are taking both racers and money out of racing.  The only justification for the leaches is it's more cost effective for tracks to outsource tech then to have in house tech.  If rules were in place across the board with local tracks, there would be no need for crate engines.  If all tracks had the same engine rules, eventually if someone is cheating it would become known and a track would catch them.  But the cost of tech outsourcing and mandated expense to feed the leaches on the backs of the racers is wrong.

 

If good comes from the crate it will be in the form of like rules across the board between all tracks.  Will it drive so many racers out of racing that it hurts racing beyond the general increase in population to cover it, has yet to be seen.  If you dumb down the percentage of the over all population involved in racing, your dumbing down racing.   Racing will end up getting nothing out of the process, but the leaches will get big and fat.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 05 January 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[4FUN]

 

When a track slows down it adds to the advantage lighter has over heavier.  There's only one reason for a track to slow down and it's because grip is reduced.  Reduce grip and lighter always gains more from it over gains by heavier.

 

Is 200#'s enough weight break for 602's to compete with 604's?

 

If they were really interested in making it more cost effective for racers using crate engines, they'd give the 602's enough of a weight break for the them to beat 604's.  Then it would be why would anyone spend the extra for a 604 when the weight/602 combination is the fastest thing on the track.

If they would do that, the crate late guys wouldn't have anywhere to dump their used stuff.....

I've never seen so many used 604's in the classifieds....

[RmiT]

IF there was a "Sudden" Market for 3 toed shoes, there'd be a lot of those ads, too!!!

[714d]

I don't think there really IS a market increase for crate motors. Only a POTENTIAL increase. I see a lot of crates for sale, but if guys were truly buying them, you'd see their open motors up for sale. Not many of those in the classifieds. Either everyone has enough coin to sit on their current motors, or no one is buying crates.

[scruffy1a]

I don't think there really IS a market increase for crate motors. Only a POTENTIAL increase. I see a lot of crates for sale, but if guys were truly buying them, you'd see their open motors up for sale. Not many of those in the classifieds. Either everyone has enough coin to sit on their current motors, or no one is buying crates.

Perhaps there's so much money put into cheated-up open motors that the price they'd get is not worth getting rid of them.  Maybe they don't want the next guy to know about the goodies they snuck in there.

 

Besides, these crate engines are so affordable, racers are probably buying new in anticipation of running it for years without a rebuild.  No need to seek out used pieces.

[dano47]

Dirtstudent2. You said some guys did not stay in the sportsman class because they want to build their own engine. I would agree with that and I belive another factor is if you have an older car there is no way to make the car light enough to be competative. The guys with the heavier cars under the crate only rule woud ride around in the back of the pack. Not everyone can afford a new car. I have been around racing for a long time. I think you will see one car dominate the sportsman class this year. If he shows up every week, the 33 will win over 50% of the features this year. Thats not good for the class.    

[4FUN]

From the 2016 Lernerville Sportsman rules:

 

WEIGHT

 

: Cars MUST weigh, with driver, a minimum of 2900lbs for 604 motors and 2700lbs for 602 motors. ALL cars finishing feature MUST weigh at scales before entering Pits, failure to do so will place car last in pay-off. Track reserves right to check weights after Heat races. All ballast must be painted white with car number on it. Ballast must be under the body.

 

If memory serves... this is the same as last year...

 

Think they sould have raised the weights to help out the guys with the older chassis....

[jo73]

714D. Maybe, just maybe, these open motor cars are leaving lernerville for a track that wants them. You see crate motor after crate motor for sale. Why ! Because they want to sell them so that they can go buy a fresh motor. Another negative about crate motors is that the more laps the slower they become. Or you have to have the valve seats ground and heights and spring pressures checked.

[jo73]

Aaaaa love those crate motors. Wait, time is going to tell. I really do hope I'm wrong about all this crate crap. It will be a shame to see a class made for the beginner racer just get the banana..

[LM63]

The circle jerk continues.... Lol Same group repeating the same dumb azz crap.... Ha....

[Skull]

The circle jerk continues.... Lol Same group repeating the same dumb azz crap.... Ha....

Do you even run Lernerville? I suspect the answer is no. Then you have no skin in the game, so go hump your crate motor and Miss Vikki elsewhere.

[Ffracer]

How many crate cars do you guys think will be at lernerville on opening night? I suspect 15 or more. I also think the racing will be better than its ever been. The average fan will probably not even notice a difference in engines that are being run in a stock car. The majority of the people involved in the sport, weather driver, owner or fan, could care less about this rule change. It seems to me that there are VERY few people bashing or complaining about it at all. I say lets give it a chance and see how it goes. It could be the best thing that ever happened to the division or it could be a total failure. My guess is that those who want to race will race and the few who oppose will choose to go down a different path. The division will gain more than it loses.

[The Legend]

Cadets were never meant to be store bought turn key race cars on late model tires with 20+ year veteran drivers .... The racers and tracks let them become that. Having them all run crates isn't going to help much. Seems like a couple
Guys quit ... so who is beating down the door to spend 20k to race against long time veteran drivers for a 1/20 shot at winning 100 dollars ??? lol

[Crusty1]

JMO,
why you see so many used 604's for sale, when it cost $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 to freshen up a race motor why not buy a new 604?
And don't tell me you have to have a Blue Printed engine, one of the LM drivers that won a few races and was always fast a PMS had a motor right out of the crate.
(Jo, I would say all motors drop off the more laps that you run not just the 604's.)
I'm sure a new motor runs better than most used motors but I know of several Crate LM guys that have won with 3 & 4 year old 604's.


As far as how many cars I think they will start with - 12 - and if things go well it should grow and if not the RUSH LM will be on the menu.

I also think if they really want to save the racer money they should run a 602 at 2900 Lbs.

[LM63]

Lol   Struck a nerve....I have run Lernerville but obviously do not on a regular basis.  And I have much better things to "hump" than my motor. I'll leave Vicky out of the remark as your blind hatred for anything she and or Rush do is apparent.  And... that is your right but my original post is on point!   Same group posting the same crap over and over!