76 replies to this topic

[blue by you]

a weight break and a taller spoiler would be a start....jmo

[racer67x]

that was my idea also..leave our weight in line with Penn Ohio rules..maybe give them 2" spoiler and 2750. go from there.

[Racer17L]

Funny I suggested 2800# and all of the Crate drivers who responded said they can't get their cars that low and even if they did the rear percentage would be 47% which I agree with.  So I'm not sure where to go from here.  I want to keep Penn Ohio rules but grow the division by reducing the barriers to entry.  Back in the day it was 3200# motors up to 410 CI, then 3000# 410 CI then 2900# now guys have 421, 430's and still weigh 2900# while crates still weigh 2900#.  I'm not really sure where it goes from here weekly, open emods started doing the same things and now are obsolete except for up north.

 

Again, the focus is weekly racing.  Penn Ohio is great for the sport as a traveling series.  But when the car counts go from 56 for the ELM to 11 the next week that has to get some attention.

[racer67x]

I'm not putting another 300 pounds on my car only to have to take it off and guess how it will handle when the PO cars come in..just to pacify a handful of people. our car is 5 years old and weighed 2450 when first completed..its carrying well over 300 pounds of lead already and I can't get over 51% rear. I don't know the answer,been talking to people involved but I still think catering to Rush is wrong..the main problem getting cars is the purse. like it or not.

[sle21]

anyone consider a rev chip for the open motors?  a lower max rpm at the end of the straight would require a gear change to a higher ratio for the open guys.  a higher gear would prevent the open motor guys from taking off on a restart so much better than a crate engine, so hopefully it would level the playing field out.  for the few nights a year the penn ohio tour comes to town, swap gears and pull a rev chip.

[Racer17L]

Here’s some of the feedback given:

Opens weigh 3000#
Anything over 410 CI weighs 3000#
Crates weigh 2800#
Gear rule for opens
Rev chip limit for opens
Restricter plate on opens
2 barrels on opens
Hard RR tire on opens
8” spoiler for Crates
Less spoiler on opens
Additional nose/wedge panel for Crates (like spec LM)
12” wheels on crates

I’m not saying any of this is a simple fix. Just throwing some ideas I’ve seen out there.

[DavyLee2]

Chips and gears all good ideas but Rules like that are too hard to police
Weight is easy
Spoiler is easy
Cubic inch is easy

Cant get percent? Isnt that what springs are for ?
The 200 lbs from crate to open seemed the fairest to me
And up to 400 cubic inch is 100 less than open
Thought the penn Ohio rules from 2016 were perfect
And even better was Pittsburgh had 2800 for a 350

Edited by DavyLee2, 07 November 2018 - 08:39 PM.

[DavyLee2]

I also dont think its right that someone would expect to make a car with a crate motor on level playing field with an open car

They deserve to win when the track is tacky because its more car than driver in that setting
Only believe a guy with a 4000 dollar motor deserves a chance with them when the track is slick and it is more driver than car and that should make anybody happy
Keep it simple like it was in 2015 or 2016 like Vince called it the good ole days

[racer67x]

I told Matt in my email that some of the best racing we had was late 90's early to mid 2000's..that's where the Hobby Rules need to go at this point. then it got out of hand..lol

[yenko1]

604 - 602    WEIGHT A.) NO WEIGHT LIMIT  (.ez to tech )

[jo73]

No weight limit ! That's what cost the most. Guys will be out spending anybody for 100 pds. That would kill the sport.

[DavyLee2]

No weight limit ! That's what cost the most. Guys will be out spending anybody for 100 pds. That would kill the sport.

Your saying that guys who are buying a Crate motor to save money are going to buy a titanium bolt kit and aluminum steering box etc etc etc ?
I dont think so but it truly is possible
You still have to have a good ole steel car frame and steel tube roll cage and aluminum blocks are already illegal
I dont see that as a problem but if you make
Say 2700 lbs its gomna be hard to get to that with a driver
Unless your the Danimall
What the heck is that thing made of ?? Titanium??
Lol

[blue by you]

I would like someone to explain to me where all these 604 cars are coming from. pms had what 3or 4 cars running there this year do they really think lernerville guys are going to race there weekly that they need to change the rules thats rush trying to take over another track..... nothing more.

[Racer17L]

Its not about getting existing LV cars to convert to PPMS weekly. Its about giving guys a competitive option going forward because at this rate PPMS will be down to 5 cars if the cost to entry continues to grow.

Think about where the open motors were just 5 years ago:

410 CI limit.
3200#
No spoiler
1600s or D55 only
3310 carbs only
We werent even allowed to run brake bias adjusters

Now clearly that ship has sailed. No one is going to go back to those rules or 8 tires. Everyone is still trying to align with Penn Ohio rules. But weekly where do we go?

There used to be a spec 350-358 option to allow a weight break. Any car on 8 tires could run a spoiler. Any 604 could run an open carb and spoiler. All those advantages are gone. So either right now you spend or get left behind.

The goal is to have a guy buy an older car and put a refreshed 604 into it and go racing for under $10K, versus putting that into an open motor alone. Those guys should be able to race with McManus and Beech weekly versus the 3 nights a year where the track is black ice slick. There has to be an incentive or competitive advantage or youre going to see single digit car counts in the near future. Then this class weekly will go the way of Emods. I dont want that.

At PPMS, when McManus, Nick, Billy and Danny retire whos gonna be left? Thats the whole point. You need some new blood. It has to be affordable.

[DavyLee2]

Its not about getting existing LV cars to convert to PPMS weekly. Its about giving guys a competitive option going forward because at this rate PPMS will be down to 5 cars if the cost to entry continues to grow.

Think about where the open motors were just 5 years ago:

410 CI limit.
3200#
No spoiler
1600s or D55 only
3310 carbs only
We werent even allowed to run brake bias adjusters

Now clearly that ship has sailed. No one is going to go back to those rules or 8 tires. Everyone is still trying to align with Penn Ohio rules. But weekly where do we go?

There used to be a spec 350-358 option to allow a weight break. Any car on 8 tires could run a spoiler. Any 604 could run an open carb and spoiler. All those advantages are gone. So either right now you spend or get left behind.

The goal is to have a guy buy an older car and put a refreshed 604 into it and go racing for under $10K, versus putting that into an open motor alone. Those guys should be able to race with McManus and Beech weekly versus the 3 nights a year where the track is black ice slick. There has to be an incentive or competitive advantage or youre going to see single digit car counts in the near future. Then this class weekly will go the way of Emods. I dont want that.

At PPMS, when McManus, Nick, Billy and Danny retire whos gonna be left? Thats the whole point. You need some new blood. It has to be affordable.

Well said !
Those very rules you talked about got someone like ME in!
Had 8 tires an 8 spoiler
A spec 350 with the 3310 carb
And could weigh 2800 and had a couple real good runs !
Was very enthusiastic that with some practice and handling adjustments could race with the guys weekly !
But then the spoiler was taken away
Then the weight ! And that puts a guy like me on the fence
About going forward !
What you described Vince opens up the world to all have a shot in stock cars if they want to get into racing
Look how many guys have gotten back in
Like dellinger and Kugal
Those are guys I always dreamed of racing !
I think the 10 grand was a no brained to get the winningest stock car guy back in from Sharon but penn Ohio is what brought this all about
I hope they step back and help the little motor guy a little like they did before

Edited by DavyLee2, 08 November 2018 - 03:57 PM.

[jo73]

Why do things get so confusing as soon as someone starts talking crate anything ?

[dirtstudent2]

Why do things get so confusing as soon as someone starts talking crate anything ?

 

Because the whole reason for crate racing is to sell products to a knich group of people.  It's intentionally confusing to insure pedlars of racing products get deep into the pockets of racers and to insure they are able to >>>USE<<< for the cost of Bull Shit tracks they need to sell their product.