166 replies to this topic

[jo73]

I don't disagree on the purses. I don't know if Gary had any control over purse strcture. Personally, I doubt it, he worked for WRG also. The purses are still the same and fans are paying more. Camping, all terrain type vehicles (both fans and competitors), concessions. I used to wait and have my Friday dinner at the track, hot sausage, fish, whatever. Never did I think it was sub par. I go to subway know and have it before I go into the track along with a chip and a drink. So Yea there's been change since Gary left, I don't feel it's been for the paying customer.

[Paul55]

I know the tire rule kept alot more then a few cars away and the wide open hammer down track did also.

[raceover5]

Not enough cars blowing the wet part of the track off is why it's been tacky.

[94.3-RADRACER]

ump keeps us away........tracks to heavy also........and those rush sprints will knock  410's around..........once they see what they run for in rush, and they grow, hotrod98's big talk will be in one......

[Hotrod98]

ump keeps us away........tracks to heavy also........and those rush sprints will knock  410's around..........once they see what they run for in rush, and they grow, hotrod98's big talk will be in one......

no chance. Don't have a stake in the game. Sorry

Edited by Hotrod98, 22 August 2017 - 10:08 PM.

[54warrior]

It's not just Lernerville.  

 

Generally speaking, racing in western PA has taken an overall decline over the past 5 years, at least from my perspective.   The excitement of attending weekly racing has worn off and it has nothing to do with the facility or the track or the food or the camping or the prices.  The quality of the racing just isn't what it used to be.   No one goes to watch a train race, follow the leader type of event.  Sadly though, that's what it's been the last handful of times that I've attended.  I remember coming home and having something to talk about, a battle for the lead, the driver who came from 16th up to 3rd, the three car battle for 4th place, etc.   

 

I blame it on the fact that the sport has gotten too expensive and the level of competition just isn't what it was.  The talent/budget gap between first and last places has become too extreme.  This is only amplified by the lower car counts. We're then left to watch some boring racing.   Blame it on the economy, blame it on the purses, blame it on whatever you choose, unless a miracle happens, it's only going to be a bumpier road from here.   There's always talk about how the younger generation isn't interested.   Why would they be?  Races with no passing, being dominated by only a few drivers.  Doesn't sound too appealing to me either.  

 

Sadly, I can't offer any solution.   One could get into the debate on crate cars and spec cars and rules packages and blah blah blah, but that's been beaten to death.   The guys with the big check books are just going to spend spend spend at whatever cost it takes, leaving the smaller budget teams in their dust.   The smaller budget teams are what makes local weekly racing work though, and they're quickly closing up shop.  Can you blame them?

[norwinrunner]

54Warrior you are so 1000% correct. Even at 47 I still love to read the stories before I started to go to races. (Late starter in my early 20's) of how it used to be. Track and racers Thursday thru Sunday. I'm sure everybody tried to one up each other but it was a few $$$ spent and not thousands. Everybody racing is older. There is no new generation because cost of entry for anything besides a 4 banger is not realistic for the average person.

It's tough watching things you loved as a youth disappear. Horse racing is on life support. Who remembers watching PBA bowling in the winter at 3pm on ABC when it was a big deal. It's funny to look back when it was a bigger prize fund than golf.

I don't have an answer either. It's a bad trend of less gate means less prize fund which means less cars and even less gate.

[Wolfie29]

As far as crate cars I have no problem with them although I'm not a real big fan of them especially on the big half miles let alone the super lates or limited lates...On the 1/4 to say the 3/8 mile tracks any late model division usually puts on better racing for the fans with close and side be side racing...There are a few exceptions though and PPMS and Eldora are a couple of them....In my opinion you can make a bigger track multi-grooved with the right knowledge but it just seems to me that most of the big halves and 5/8 mile places are one groove and they leave them go year after year without changes....I read a few comments about this past week's WoO Late Model race at Port Royal was boring because of single file racing and they said it was their last trip there...For my money I'd rather go watch a regular show of limited or super lates on a smaller track than a high dollar race at a big speed track...JMO....

Edited by Wolfie29, 23 August 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[dirtstudent2]

54Warrior you are so 1000% correct. Even at 47 I still love to read the stories before I started to go to races. (Late starter in my early 20's) of how it used to be. Track and racers Thursday thru Sunday. I'm sure everybody tried to one up each other but it was a few $$$ spent and not thousands. Everybody racing is older. There is no new generation because cost of entry for anything besides a 4 banger is not realistic for the average person.

It's tough watching things you loved as a youth disappear. Horse racing is on life support. Who remembers watching PBA bowling in the winter at 3pm on ABC when it was a big deal. It's funny to look back when it was a bigger prize fund than golf.

I don't have an answer either. It's a bad trend of less gate means less prize fund which means less cars and even less gate.

 

Sure there's no passing there ain't nobody to pass anymore. 

 

You can't have any passing if you don't have cars to pass.  Reducing car count from 24 to 20 hurt potential payout to lesser cars which are needed to have something to pass.  Mandatory make money for promoters items further hurt having less then top dollar shiny cars at the race.  Then there's take lapped cars out of their earned place in line, put them to the back and do away with any advantage the front runners earned keeping fans from seeing passing.  

 

Sure there's no passing there ain't nobody to pass anymore. 

 

 

Sure wish fans would make up their minds do they want to see car count and passing or do they want to see a few shiny high dollar cars play follow the leader?  Since 2000 local promoters have done all they can to push away lower budget racers who are part of the show.    

[jo73]

Well, I'll ask this. If a change comes where they drop 1 of the 3 main classes. Which one goes ? And what then happens to there fan base ? I think one of the things that holds lernerville together is the big 3 classes running together. The fan base. I believe the weakest link would be the big block mods. I for one would be greatly disappointed with that. But if something like that would happen. First you would have to raise payouts in both sprints and SLM. Second is get rid of the UMP rules. Do they keep these rules because of the Firecracker and WoO ? There the only track using that tire, teams are not going to buy a extra set of tires just for lernerville. The kickback has to be beneficial to someone because the rule is ridiculous. The guys running slm are buying mods. Would a good purse bring them back or is the class just out of control ? O by the way, mark Richards just came up with a new air shock for the LR. Just what SLM needed, some will say they have been out. Yes, they have, but guys are spending a lot of cash on that deal. It's another reason guys don't race weekly. There spending way to much and are know picking and choosing. Miley quit running lernerville weekly, you cannot afford to have a back marker do something stupid, it just happened to him at eriez. Where is the 1c ? It has been reported they have had the motor back for weeks and yet the car is idle. Gene Pennington, yes back in the day, would build you a late model or a modified 350.00 you supply the rear of your choice and tires and wheels. Ed sr. paid a friend of mine 50.00 for a gremlin body. You can't buy a sheet of aluminum for that today. The rule makers just can't seem to get it. You no if 10 guys bought a crate motor for the sportsman class at lernerville they would have spent 100K. Yea maybe lower, maybe higher. I don't care. 10 guys could have bought the latest and greatest rocket or bloomer car and had 1 hell of a year with the right driver. I wonder which one would be more enjoyable ? Any takers ?

[dirtstudent2]

"you cannot afford to have a back marker do something stupid"  I'm not arguing the point you made I'm expanding on it.

 

Back markers can afford even less to have a front runner come around and do something stupid.

 

Back markers can afford even less to have a stupid front runner put to the back do something stupid.

 

Back markers can afford even less front runners racing for the checkers doing something stupid.

 

 

Stupid in racing isn't a low budget only club locking it's doors to top ten racers.

 

Low budget back markers get their top tens and occasionally better because high budget front runners can be just as stupid.

 

 

edit:  You cannot afford to have a track if there ain't cars there to race and that's the bottom line those who bleed money out of racers don't understand.  Fans don't come through the gate to eat popcorn they come to see the show, degrade the show front runner or back marker and you ain't got no fans.

 

 

 

Quoting a local promoter:  "I charge racers a fair price to race at the quality track I provide".  It's that line of thinking not poor back markers that has hurt local racing.   Racers front runner or back marker are not just customers, they are the show.

Edited by dirtstudent2, 23 August 2017 - 12:57 PM.

[jo73]

DS2. I thought for sure you would have tossed 10G into the mix.

[dirtstudent2]

DS2. I thought for sure you would have tossed 10G into the mix.

 

What is 10G ten grand?

 

edit:  jo73,  DS2 (ds squared) is theory in physics which may make it possible to go beyond the speed of light and additional theory presented on here and generally not believed by readers, which may make it possible for back markers to go beyond the speed of front runners.  Both are tough to put into application.   

Edited by dirtstudent2, 23 August 2017 - 01:22 PM.

[Hotrod98]

It's not just Lernerville.  
 
Generally speaking, racing in western PA has taken an overall decline over the past 5 years, at least from my perspective.   The excitement of attending weekly racing has worn off and it has nothing to do with the facility or the track or the food or the camping or the prices.  The quality of the racing just isn't what it used to be.   No one goes to watch a train race, follow the leader type of event.  Sadly though, that's what it's been the last handful of times that I've attended.  I remember coming home and having something to talk about, a battle for the lead, the driver who came from 16th up to 3rd, the three car battle for 4th place, etc.   
 
I blame it on the fact that the sport has gotten too expensive and the level of competition just isn't what it was.  The talent/budget gap between first and last places has become too extreme.  This is only amplified by the lower car counts. We're then left to watch some boring racing.   Blame it on the economy, blame it on the purses, blame it on whatever you choose, unless a miracle happens, it's only going to be a bumpier road from here.   There's always talk about how the younger generation isn't interested.   Why would they be?  Races with no passing, being dominated by only a few drivers.  Doesn't sound too appealing to me either.  
 
Sadly, I can't offer any solution.   One could get into the debate on crate cars and spec cars and rules packages and blah blah blah, but that's been beaten to death.   The guys with the big check books are just going to spend spend spend at whatever cost it takes, leaving the smaller budget teams in their dust.   The smaller budget teams are what makes local weekly racing work though, and they're quickly closing up shop.  Can you blame them?

one way to fix it is the purse. Go out east.... The Grove, Lincoln, Port, all pay over 3000 to win WEEKLY. Have large car counts with great cars, and good racing, and big crowds. Western PA is slowly dying out. And it's going to take one track to increase the purse, maybe step away from 1 tire distributor, and I am will to bet cars come back, the quality of cars come back, and better racing comes back. That seems to be the biggest complaint. More locals running elsewhere or specials that pay more because of the purse. If only one track had the balls to step up and increase the purse, alot would change for the better. And I am not saying to jump to Eastern PA tracks right off the bat. But make it worth it, and cars will show.

[sicario]

I read an article where Gary was interviewed and he said WG had a weekly $24,000 purse, well so do we. Yes you might but WG has half the classes, no supers or mods and pays the headliner twice what lville does because they don't have to pay through the rest of the divisions. Plus WG pays handicap incentives and bonuses to win a race starting t the back. A driver could walk away with $3,600 for a win there. They don't have 15 different classes in that region either. They have a limited late and sprint class. It's well run and everything can flow from the bottom to the top due to the setup of classes. When you look at it they also don't throw money away on support classes like the tracks around here do. Yea the $ paid out to RUSH tour races and penn ohio is great but tracks are replacing the BRP tour with those forementioned series because it's guaranteed cars. How many tracks pay $1,000 + to win for those support series when it could be put towards a headliner or more headliner shows. Mismanagement of funds from promoters and people spending like crazy to run support series is taking money from the top. Until support series are treated as such the headliners will continue to die. Drivers want this that and whatever and they get it. Stovks with huge motors & big tires. Econo mods are essentially what emods were meant to be but we've let every class get out of hand.

Edited by sicario, 23 August 2017 - 02:17 PM.

[FanJim24]

Seriously, I don't know this one, but I wouldn't be surprised if Don Martin was the last promoter at Lernerville to raise the purse. If it wasn't him it was the Roenicks. It's been that long. 

[Rusty_Nuts]

Because watching Mike Pegher, Max Blair, and Russ King dominate crates with brand new Xr1's against a bunch of people that are 'low buck' is enjoyable? At least the supers go fast. I take piss breaks during the crate races and come back 1 lap later.

Yup, the hundreds of people in the stands will quit going if they don't get to see Mike Norris win 9 out of 10 combined heats and features over 8 cars every week, versus watching 24-28 weekly Crate late models instead.

[Rusty_Nuts]

I got denied the use of a rain check.  Was told they don't honor rain checks.  The guy next to me forgot to bring his, and asked if he could bring it next week and was told the same thing, No rain checks.  I call bullshit.  I call greed.

After missing 3 weeks to rain the pop goes up to $2.50.  They got my last dollar Friday night.  Down down down they go.

Dont worry. They are giving a big $50 to all drivers this week! I wonder if that's why the admission had gone up?

[dirtstudent2]

one way to fix it is the purse. Go out east.... The Grove, Lincoln, Port, all pay over 3000 to win WEEKLY. Have large car counts with great cars, and good racing, and big crowds. Western PA is slowly dying out. And it's going to take one track to increase the purse, maybe step away from 1 tire distributor, and I am will to bet cars come back, the quality of cars come back, and better racing comes back. That seems to be the biggest complaint. More locals running elsewhere or specials that pay more because of the purse. If only one track had the balls to step up and increase the purse, alot would change for the better. And I am not saying to jump to Eastern PA tracks right off the bat. But make it worth it, and cars will show.

 

 

I think your mistaken they don't always get full fields out east.  Lincoln and Port Royal go head to head on Saturday splitting cars and the Grove usually runs on Fridays to avoid splitting cars more.  What keeps out east going is the same as what keeps California racing going.  The two areas are within driving distance of most of the population of the United States.  What fans around here see is the crowds they experience when they go out east for a special show.  Sure they have a lot of seats reserved out east but on a regular night you can sit most any place you like in the stands.  

 

I think the last changes in purse payout at Lernerville and Mercer was a lowering of it.  

 

 

Does anyone really think the tracks around here care about having full fields?  All they see is if there's not a full field then they don't have to payout as much.  They learned the lesson well when going from putting 24 cars on the track to 20.  

Edited by dirtstudent2, 23 August 2017 - 03:08 PM.

[Rusty_Nuts]

ump keeps us away........tracks to heavy also........and those rush sprints will knock  410's around..........once they see what they run for in rush, and they grow, hotrod98's big talk will be in one......

RUSH Sprints pushing the 410s out? LOL