166 replies to this topic

[dirtstudent2]

Because watching Mike Pegher, Max Blair, and Russ King dominate crates with brand new Xr1's against a bunch of people that are 'low buck' is enjoyable? At least the supers go fast. I take piss breaks during the crate races and come back 1 lap later.

 

I enjoy watching each of those drivers and their ability to get a car through the corners well.  What's interesting about watching crates especially showed at Tri City last Sunday.  From the front runners to the back markers they were all the same speed down the back stretch.  It seems who wins a crate race is usually about who gets around the corner best and is the best racer.  Heck all crate racers should be able to afford an Xr1 with the money saved on engines.  Fans on this board would expect anyone who can't afford one to get out of Late Model racing.  You know if you can't afford Xr1 to race you have no business racing, but then everyone would complain about low crate car count.

 

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[jo73]

look what rusty is doing in his mod. he goes in and wins darn near every show. can you blame him, NO. he's cashing a check and i bet making some money. you watch a sprint car guy do the same.

[flash49]

I've been going to the races since I was a little boy in the mid 1950s.  I am still excited when I'm going to a race even to this day, and I'm sorry so many of you other folks are so disillusioned.  I don't agree that the quality of racing has deteriorated that much.  The cars counts are smaller, but look at the Late Model and BB Mod feature last week at Lernerville.  Alex Ferree and Michael Norris, along with Jeremiah Shingledecker and Mat Williamson put on one hell of a show.  And that type of racing at Lernerville is more the rule than the exception.  There's no sense comparing Central PA and Western PA.  The payouts are big out there because lots of sponsors pony up big bucks.  There are no professional sports teams in that area, so companies who want to get their names out don't have nearly as much choice as companies in Western PA.  Big sponsorship money here goes to the Pirates, Steelers, Penguins, the Theater district, and many other activities only found in big cities.  Same with the fan base, not a whole lot of competition for the entertainment dollar at Port Royal, Hanover, or Mechanicsburg.  

 

As far as the racing being better, the last several Sprint races I've seen at Williams Grove and the Port have been snoozers.  The fans I sat with at Williams Grove were all bitching about the lack of passing.  So, when you think the other man's grass is always greener, it's not always true.  

 

Raising the purse is not the big fix some of you think.  Fifteen or so years ago, Raceway 7 paid $2000 to win for the Late Models every Friday night.  Cars counts were very good for a short while, then began to fall off drastically, and today Late Models only appear at Raceway 7 for special events.  Racing will only fail in this area if long-time race fans quit going.  

[Hot Dog]

I, like the rest of you, don't enjoy anything about racing. I just want to pile on too.

Edited by Hot Dog, 23 August 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[dirtstudent2]

I, like the rest of you, don't enjoy anything about racing. I just want to pile on too.

 

Job well done Sir

[Rusty_Nuts]

 

I enjoy watching each of those drivers and their ability to get a car through the corners well.  What's interesting about watching crates especially showed at Tri City last Sunday.  From the front runners to the back markers they were all the same speed down the back stretch.  It seems who wins a crate race is usually about who gets around the corner best and is the best racer.  Heck all crate racers should be able to afford an Xr1 with the money saved on engines.  Fans on this board would expect anyone who can't afford one to get out of Late Model racing.  You know if you can't afford Xr1 to race you have no business racing, but then everyone would complain about low crate car count.

 

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It still goes farther than everything being equal and being a better driver. Now you need to look at the chassis, suspension, and every other bolt on piece. Because i would guarantee they are very close to being the best, which makes them much easier to drive. Lets be real, how hard can a car be to drive that only has 400 horsepower? Racing was built on progressively increasing divisions, and hence horsepower. If you cant handle a higher division, you drop back down to less horsepower.  How is that saving the driver any money?

 

And no, you cant buy an XR1 with the money saved from the crate engine. Do you know what JUST those chassis cost? As a student, do your research. While you're at it, look on the classifieds. Youll find SLM engines for cheaper than you think. What is with everyone's thought process these days that you must spend $50000 on brand new engines to be competitive around here? And people wonder why racing is dying. Everyone thinks they save money by buying a $5000 crate, yet they all lose their ass at the pay window all year long and constantly getting beat by guys that still spend more money. If you come to races in a toter and stacker and havent run anything more than a crate engine, you need to move up.

[94.3-RADRACER]

It still goes farther than everything being equal and being a better driver. Now you need to look at the chassis, suspension, and every other bolt on piece. Because i would guarantee they are very close to being the best, which makes them much easier to drive. Lets be real, how hard can a car be to drive that only has 400 horsepower? Racing was built on progressively increasing divisions, and hence horsepower. If you cant handle a higher division, you drop back down to less horsepower.  How is that saving the driver any money?

 

And no, you cant buy an XR1 with the money saved from the crate engine. Do you know what JUST those chassis cost? As a student, do your research. While you're at it, look on the classifieds. Youll find SLM engines for cheaper than you think. What is with everyone's thought process these days that you must spend $50000 on brand new engines to be competitive around here? And people wonder why racing is dying. Everyone thinks they save money by buying a $5000 crate, yet they all lose their ass at the pay window all year long and constantly getting beat by guys that still spend more money. If you come to races in a toter and stacker and havent run anything more than a crate engine, you need to move up.

happens in every division, but thank you for just worring about us crate cars........

[BaconBits]

Make "cheaper" rules all you want. Racers will spend with reckless abandon anyways. Thats been the case since the very first auto race in history. Everybody always talks about solutions to keep costs down, but none of those solutions ever save anybody a damn penny.

[Benny K]

Lernerville has has had more Sprints for regular shows than Williams Grove. Most nights for a regular Friday they get 22-25. Lincoln and Port average about the same for regular programs. Not arguing quality of fields just number of cars. It's western PA fantasy to always assume everyone out east is jam packed every week. It is also true they dont run as many classes at certain tracks but central PA has super lates, stocks, 4 cylinders etc. They don't have e mods or crate mods/ lates but have legends, midgets, 4 cylinder thunders, super sportsman so they actually have just as many if not more classes. Just have to look at the other tracks like Trail Way and Susquehanna.

[FanJim24]

It still goes farther than everything being equal and being a better driver. Now you need to look at the chassis, suspension, and every other bolt on piece. Because i would guarantee they are very close to being the best, which makes them much easier to drive. Lets be real, how hard can a car be to drive that only has 400 horsepower? Racing was built on progressively increasing divisions, and hence horsepower. If you cant handle a higher division, you drop back down to less horsepower.  How is that saving the driver any money?

 

And no, you cant buy an XR1 with the money saved from the crate engine. Do you know what JUST those chassis cost? As a student, do your research. While you're at it, look on the classifieds. Youll find SLM engines for cheaper than you think. What is with everyone's thought process these days that you must spend $50000 on brand new engines to be competitive around here? And people wonder why racing is dying. Everyone thinks they save money by buying a $5000 crate, yet they all lose their ass at the pay window all year long and constantly getting beat by guys that still spend more money. If you come to races in a toter and stacker and havent run anything more than a crate engine, you need to move up.

But then people find out that you can't really drive, and can only win when you spend 10x as much as the next guy. Which is why that guy that rolls in with 3 cars to a crate race had to punt Miley the last time Miley ran a crate at the stampede. 

Edited by FanJim24, 23 August 2017 - 06:22 PM.

[94.3-RADRACER]

i agree, smaller tracks produce ten times the racing big tracks have......jmo........eriez show sunday would blow away any race near here, including lernerville.....that was an awesome race.....

[9kchas24]

I've been going to the races since I was a little boy in the mid 1950s.  I am still excited when I'm going to a race even to this day, and I'm sorry so many of you other folks are so disillusioned.  I don't agree that the quality of racing has deteriorated that much.  The cars counts are smaller, but look at the Late Model and BB Mod feature last week at Lernerville.  Alex Ferree and Michael Norris, along with Jeremiah Shingledecker and Mat Williamson put on one hell of a show.  And that type of racing at Lernerville is more the rule than the exception.  There's no sense comparing Central PA and Western PA.  The payouts are big out there because lots of sponsors pony up big bucks.  There are no professional sports teams in that area, so companies who want to get their names out don't have nearly as much choice as companies in Western PA.  Big sponsorship money here goes to the Pirates, Steelers, Penguins, the Theater district, and many other activities only found in big cities.  Same with the fan base, not a whole lot of competition for the entertainment dollar at Port Royal, Hanover, or Mechanicsburg.  

 

As far as the racing being better, the last several Sprint races I've seen at Williams Grove and the Port have been snoozers.  The fans I sat with at Williams Grove were all bitching about the lack of passing.  So, when you think the other man's grass is always greener, it's not always true.  

 

Raising the purse is not the big fix some of you think.  Fifteen or so years ago, Raceway 7 paid $2000 to win for the Late Models every Friday night.  Cars counts were very good for a short while, then began to fall off drastically, and today Late Models only appear at Raceway 7 for special events.  Racing will only fail in this area if long-time race fans quit going.  

I believe Raceway 7's SLM car count only started to decline after other area tracks raised their purse some, slowing down car counts, and then management there "said" they weren't making money with the big purse, even with all the late models and fans that were coming, so they cut the purse back, and then counts REALLY dropped....  Just my recollection from someone who went there almost every week back-in-the-day..

[flash49]

 

I enjoy watching each of those drivers and their ability to get a car through the corners well.  What's interesting about watching crates especially showed at Tri City last Sunday.  From the front runners to the back markers they were all the same speed down the back stretch.  It seems who wins a crate race is usually about who gets around the corner best and is the best racer.  Heck all crate racers should be able to afford an Xr1 with the money saved on engines.  Fans on this board would expect anyone who can't afford one to get out of Late Model racing.  You know if you can't afford Xr1 to race you have no business racing, but then everyone would complain about low crate car count.

 

.   

 

In that regard, there is little difference between Crate Late Models and Super Late Models.  Most of the Super Late Models are fast on the straights, not counting the really low budget people who are just plain outgunned, but the consistent winners are those who have good handling cars.

[3799]

Lernerville has has had more Sprints for regular shows than Williams Grove. Most nights for a regular Friday they get 22-25. Lincoln and Port average about the same for regular programs. Not arguing quality of fields just number of cars. It's western PA fantasy to always assume everyone out east is jam packed every week. It is also true they dont run as many classes at certain tracks but central PA has super lates, stocks, 4 cylinders etc. They don't have e mods or crate mods/ lates but have legends, midgets, 4 cylinder thunders, super sportsman so they actually have just as many if not more classes. Just have to look at the other tracks like Trail Way and Susquehanna.

Other than their opener in March and one show in May, both of which drew 23 sprint cars, Williams Grove has had 26 or more 410 sprints for every race this year and over 30 a couple nights. Their count is not supplemented by 305 sprint cars like Lernerville either.

[94.3-RADRACER]

when 7 was in it's hayday, they got so many lm's, he was paying 2400 bucks in tow money because 40+ lm's showed up every week. was something to see........

[Benny K]

I am talking a regular Friday night 410 races. April 21st and May 26th are two other dates they had less than 26. I am not talking about All Stars, Woo, Speedweek or Yellow Breeches races. Just regular 410 shows. Lernerville can pay 3500 to win and won't draw a whole lot more. Point being if a western PA track ran 410s and one support class with 25 cars in each everyone would complain they weren't getting a solid show. 9

Other than their opener in March and one show in May, both of which drew 23 sprint cars, Williams Grove has had 26 or more 410 sprints for every race this year and over 30 a couple nights. Their count is not supplemented by 305 sprint cars like Lernerville either.

[blue by you]

 

Sure there's no passing there ain't nobody to pass anymore. 

 

You can't have any passing if you don't have cars to pass.  Reducing car count from 24 to 20 hurt potential payout to lesser cars which are needed to have something to pass.  Mandatory make money for promoters items further hurt having less then top dollar shiny cars at the race.  Then there's take lapped cars out of their earned place in line, put them to the back and do away with any advantage the front runners earned keeping fans from seeing passing.  

 

Sure there's no passing there ain't nobody to pass anymore. 

 

 

Sure wish fans would make up their minds do they want to see car count and passing or do they want to see a few shiny high dollar cars play follow the leader?  Since 2000 local promoters have done all they can to push away lower budget racers who are part of the show.    

man!!! i wish i could understand your logic.

[Walt Wimer]

The "super" Lates are a circuit wide problem!!  Here are the car counts from the past weekend.

 

REGULAR SHOWS:

 

Thunder Mt.  17

Stateline   14

Lernerville  11

Dog Hollow  11

 

SPECIALS:

 

Eriez  25  (WoO)

Bedford  25  ($8,100 to win!!!)

Freedom  19    (ULMS..$2,500 to win)

 

Even the specials are not drawing great car counts.  The class is in trouble big time in the western PA area!!   I think the high tech/high cost of Late Models is finally catching up to the class!!  Two top drivers have told me exactly that!!  

 

GOOD RACING TO ALL!!

 

Walt

[blue by you]

I seen were bobby lake motorsports is steping back for season.

[Walt Wimer]

Saw this but don't know the full story yet!!

 

Walt